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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Amal Alamuddin has changed her name professionally

490 replies

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 14/10/2014 07:12

I'm actually disappointed. Her choice blah blah but honestly. Successful women who change their names professionally always strike me as either stupid or coerced and I'm sure that's unfair I'm not really but honestly why be so committed to the concept of the obliteration of the unmarried self that you allow it to impact on your professional reputation and renown?

OP posts:

Lottapianos · 14/10/2014 14:42

'What I can't understand is why we have this utter fetishisation of choice'

Yes Buffy, that's exactly what it is - fetishisation of choice. Brilliant. I've been trying to articulate why this constant refrain of 'choice' is so frustrating and so silencing and you've explained it much better than I could have. It's not just on feminism threads - you see it all the time on parenting threads - thou shalt not ever form an opinion about another person's 'parenting style' or 'choices' about how to parent. This makes no sense, especially on a discussion board!

DunedinSunshine · 14/10/2014 14:50

I kept my name to make a feminist statement.

And I am so fucking tired of this "feminism is about choice" bullshit. It's not. It's about liberation.

ShowMeTheWonder · 14/10/2014 14:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VoyagerII · 14/10/2014 14:53

I know, and it's bollocks in regard to parenting too. "There's no right or wrong way to parent." Erm, yes there is, as clearly becomes apparent when we all slag off social services for failing to step in when they should have. And, of course, when we talk about the abusive parenting some of us suffered as children, which is often reason enough to cut off contact (I'm that situation myself, so not judging that in the least).

captainproton · 14/10/2014 14:54

I took my husband's name, I wanted my children to have the same surname as their half sibling. I didnt want to be the only one in the family with the different name. I hate double-barrelled names, and it was just easier if I changed my name. I like my new surname, I had a difficult relationship with my mother, I look like her and I didnt want to end up with her name for life.

I couldnt give a shit if you think im stupid, I changed my name professionally as well. it made not a single bit of difference. having children marked my cards not changing my name.

If I had not married I may have changed my name in time anyway.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 14:54

fwiw i think Amal is british-lebanese, and her mother took her father's name from what i can tell

falafelburger · 14/10/2014 14:54

Messy - this isn't a simple 'NAM!' response (I hope), just wanted to say that in my circle of friends everyone I know planning a marriage has discussed what they're going to name themselves afterwards, and it's a question that's asked of them prior to the marriage. There's certainly no longer unquestioned assumption that the wife will take the husband's name, which is a move in the right direction.

I offered to take my DW's name on marriage (for various reasons). She preferred I didn't but kept her own and switched to Ms. That was followed however with the usual confusion and ignorance from some family, work, schools, banks etc.

Also in addition to Chunderella's points about being a barrister and Lebanese, the couple married in Venice. Women in Italy very rarely take their husband's names on marriage.

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 14:58

My argument is not so much about wether women changing their names upon marriage should be debated, I have emphasised this already that I see no problem with this. So defining choice is rather beside the point.There has also already been a thread on MN discussing this very subject, very analytically.

My point with this particular thread is that there is nothing analytical about the OP, it was opinionated and judgemental. Whilst i agree that not all choice is beneficial to women or humankind even, there are also many choices that do not have negative impact on others and this is one of them.

Just out of interest, what if she didn't change her name to Clooney but to something else instead, just because she felt like it? would that be a feminist issue as well?

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 15:01

And I am so fucking tired of this "feminism is about choice" bullshit. It's not. It's about liberation.

Liberation on your terms.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:04

the idea is that through liberation will come true choice

MrsBuffyCockhead · 14/10/2014 15:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 15:12

I'm interested in how would you categorise situations where a woman is not making a true choice, for it is you defining it for other women. Perhaps even you have fallen victim to this to your own theory, thinking you are making 'true choices' but actually need liberating.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:14

no, you misunderstand

the point is, with true liberation it won't matter what individual women choose, because it will be a choice free of society's expectations and pressures. men and women will make truly free choices not based on gender stereotypes

i have already said, numerous times on this thread, that i'm not criticising individual women for their decisions. i assume they make the choice that makes sense for them at the time. but it is entirely legitimate to question that at a society level, and to explore the impact on women as a group that these "individual choices" have

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 15:19

but it is entirely legitimate to question that at a society level, and to explore the impact on women as a group that these "individual choices" have

Of which i have repeated several times I agree with. It is your theory of true choice that i find intriguing. Perhaps enlighten me further on 'true liberation'.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:19

my own choices are most definitely not made within a vacuum. i am as subject to the pressures of society and the expectations of those around me as anyone else. i make all sorts of decisions that work for me individually, but are not of benefit to women as a group, and that is why i avoid heaping yet more criticism on other women if i can. (and indeed i am criticised for this myself, in many ways legitimately). i choose to acknowledge that, and look at how i can either make more feminist choices in future, or work to improve the situation for all women such that that choice becomes something that is divorced from possible fear or the expectations of gender stereotyping

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:21

it's not my "theory". i was just making the point, as many ahve here already and far more eloquently, that there are choices but they are not free of influence

VenusRising · 14/10/2014 15:22

I think it's important not to forget the real struggle we have on our hands: EQUAL PAY

Who cares what we choose to call ourselves. Quite possibly Amal wants to simplify her life. (As an aside, the first time I saw her name I thought she was called Anal).

Fwiw I gave my DD my family name. My DH has his mother's too.
Spanish names always contain the mothers name.

Pointlessfan · 14/10/2014 15:24

Surely that's up to her? I was very proud to change my name when I got married, I imagine she is too. Can't see the big deal so long as it was her choice.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:26

surely if we are going to discuss this on a societal level (as agreed is an acceptable thing to do) we have to look at what influences women more than men to change their name on marriage?

socially · 14/10/2014 15:28

Good for her!

Amal has changed her name because she wants to change her name.

Good :)

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 15:36

But you are not saying anything new here, most women try to do what you are describing to the best of their ability. i don't think we will ever be able to make choices that are not influenced by our macro environment. However back to my initial point that OP and some others were being very judgemental and overly opinionated on something that really they had no right to, as no one knows what influenced Amal's or any other women's decision to change their names, or are you assuming most women make their choices in a vacuum?

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 14/10/2014 15:37

I'm talking about Amal because she's a high profile woman with a successful career. That's why it's so inexplicable to me. Married SAHMs don't have the same consequences to name changing.

This puzzles me. Why should a woman that has a successful career be held to a different level than a married SAHM? This smacks of inequality itself. She should keep her name because she's high profile and it's important for feminism, but you there that don't make any money and aren't well known, we don't care what you do?

That's actually a bit offensive IMO. Talk about double standards.

PetulaGordino · 14/10/2014 15:43

i know i'm not saying anything new here. i'm confused as to why you thought i might be

i don't think anyone makes choices in a vacuum, i have repeatedly said the opposite. i think it is ok, and we seem to be agreeing on this, to examine at a society level why more women that men are making this vacuum-less choice to change their name on marriage

i am sure there will always be some outward pressures on decisions, even if we have a society that is free of gendered violence and stereotyping which currently restricts the choices of women far more than it does men. however, i don't see that there is any need for there to be any when it comes to name-changing even as we are now. and there are outward pressures currently, that is certain. what or how or if those might have influenced amal i don't know, but i haven't made any assumptions about her decision on this thread

Gunznroses · 14/10/2014 15:45

In any case, I don't think i will be making choices based on how it affects women. I make my choices based on consequences for me and my family. That is how i prioritise life. On the other hand what if my choice benefits one group of women but not others or it has a very negative impact for my children? or immediate family.

Who gets to decide what is a good choice for women and what is bad??

Should she make herself miserable for the good of womankind? no one will call her a hero.

DunedinSunshine · 14/10/2014 15:48

I'm curious to know why some say they were proud to change their name. Proud of what, exactly?

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