Sorry about the delay in answering, I had to see an old lady in the early evening about selling her farm.
What would be the actual implications if "mere consensual" sex were an offence cadno? How would this harm men and women? I am very interested to learn your concerns about this.
You would end up with poorly drafted laws. The meanings of words are important in law. One can proposes changes to the legislation by all means, but they have to make sense. It is obvious that someone can consent to having sex without any display of 'enthusiasm' (a laconic “I don’t mind if I do” sort of thing) without a criminal offence taking place. If you want to say that the consent must be expressly and verbally given – then say so. I’m not sure where it gets you – as lying defendants in court would merely give whatever evidence is needed in order to get an acquittal.
Not sure why it is hard to understand that clearly the word enthusiastic had to be put in precisely because of the problem of pestering and coercion. The "if you loved me you would do it", "it doesn't hurt, besides I'm nearly finished", "most other women love this, so you must too" etc.
I disagree with your first sentence, for the reasons above – in any event ‘coercion’ is way outside the realms of consent. As for pestering, I suppose it’s a matter of degree. In some statutes, the law groups ‘pestering’ in with harassment – so I think pestering would of itself be unacceptable.
So, cadno, you think it's acceptable that a man should coerce an unenthusiastic woman to have sex, because hormones? Does that extend to men "not being able to stop" once sex is underway and a women changes her mind? Which, by law, is also rape.
Not what I said at all, - at all - you can’t get consent by coercion. As for hormones, it always feels to me, they are a very powerful driver of the male libido. There is a very real tension just prior to ejaculation, which disappears within seconds afterwards. I’ve often wondered what is happening chemically in the male body at those stages.
Whatever part of the male brain that is being used to the forefront at such times is not the same part that does the Sudoku puzzle in the papers.
Do you realise how that thinking reduces men to animals and shows no respect for them as intelligent human beings? Huh, and they say feminists are the man-haters.....
I have absolutely no doubt in my own mind that many of the posters here, can be very safely described as men-haters – the class of men, as it were.
I myself don’t hate men, but I do recognize that they let their libido get the better of them, often – I see no insult in our species being compared to animals. The biochemistry of our male mammalian sexuality comes from somewhere - genes. It’s like the genes for, say, bones – you don’t think that the genetics for bone manufacture differs very much between say the mouse and men do you ? We are a mammalian species, our ancestors for the past, at least, 200 million years, have been mammals. So what ?
I think Cando is saying that if you give someone permission to do something, then they are not going against your will. Especially if they have recognised your right to refuse permission for the act up to that point.
The only serious caveat I can think of would be if you were under duress of some kind of harm.
Yes that’s right – you do not get someone’s consent by putting them under duress.
mostly the actions of hormones - I believe.
Please tell me this isn't leading into "men NEED to empty their sack once they reach the point of no return..." etc.
Actually I think we do have something akin to a need – but I’m not making anything of it – I’d have thought you quite uninterested in male sexual physiology. Also having such a ‘need’ - that’s not good a defense in law against a charge of rape and very probably not good mitigation either.
A lot of men are absolutely horrified by the idea that every single sex act they ever engage in, should be wanted by the person with whom they engage in it.
Nay, nay and thrice nay…what a load of tosh.
Then mere consensual sex is an offence ? Oh dear me cadno. I hope you realise how much of an arse that statement makes you look.
Jolly, I had absolutely no idea. Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.