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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist pub no 12: The Bluestocking Returns, this time with goats!

999 replies

YonicScrewdriver · 05/10/2014 09:18

Welcome!

OP posts:
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PumpkinGordino · 27/10/2014 22:07

unwittingaccomplice i would view what you are attempting as redressing the balance

i have been trying to do the same - i'm not involved recruiting employees as such, but i am involved in deciding who we work with on a (sort of) freelance basis, and it has a direct career-enhancing effect on the people we choose. so in recruiting more men it is possible that i could actually be increasing the gap between men and women in that profession (and there is a big gap). so i have been trying within the limitations that exist, where i am choosing between two candidates of opposite sex, to influence the hiring decision towards the woman. this hasn't always been successful, and we are so often in a position where we are choosing between men anyway (which is another thing to work on). but i am leaving htis industry in two weeks anyway...

TeiTetua · 27/10/2014 22:24

Women and goats, was it meant to be something like this?

YonicScrewdriver · 27/10/2014 22:32
OP posts:
Zazzles007 · 28/10/2014 06:39

I loves me a mini goat stampede Grin

UnwittingAccomplice · 28/10/2014 06:56

Awww lots of tiny little goats Grin

That's made me feel better about the world.

What would one farm mini goats for, exactly? Other than for taking cute youtube videos...

StormyBrid · 28/10/2014 07:28

As pets that mow the lawn for you?

Zazzles007 · 28/10/2014 08:02

As I've posted elsewhere, I have studied a lot of psychology in the past, and have used it to successfully diagnose a number of people with psychological conditions.

So I was out on a field visit with one of the young salesmen (there are only 2 women on this team Sad), who is clearly a very angry young man. Usually, this sort of anger stems from their upbringing - it is likely that his parents treated him very unfairly and unjustly as a child, and this has been internalised as a very, very deep seated anger. He will need a fair bit if therapy/counseling in the future, and I do predict depression for him, unfortunately. This is pertinent because his upbringing has given him a very, very negative view on situations, people and life in general. He is what psychologists would call a 'glass half empty person", a pessimist.

He was discussing with me the visits to customers he had planned, and he described a certain customer as 'a bitch'. I let it slide once, but when he said a second time, I looked him calmly and squarely in the eye and said "So she's not very nice..." and left it at that. He did not say the word bitch to me again. The thing is, we have very clear guidelines in the company about diversity, and so what if she isn't nice to him? Its not her job to do so. As I sales person (which I was for 10 years), I never took it for granted that my customers would be nice to me, it was always a bonus that they were. And if they weren't, I eventually realised, it wasn't a reflection of me, it was a reflection of them.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 28/10/2014 09:32

Zazzles well done

And yes, I'm trying to teach our dcs to ask 'Would you ever say that to/about a man' as a useful guide (they are 11, 9 and 8).

On the general theme of seeing sexism everywhere, or through a feminist lens, I had to switch R4 off on Saturday Shock because first Sandi Toksvig, who usually I revere as a goddess, was saying that the introduction of the alphabet coincided with the rise of patriarchy (which may be true) but her reasoning was that the female brain has difficulty processing the written word Hmm

Then the Food Programme was wondering idly whether there was any truth in the statement by Tom Kerridge that women can't reach the top as chefs and nobody on the programme seemed able to just call it out, but tiptoed round it rather - but have to say I was tired and cross and switched off at that point.

rosdearg · 28/10/2014 09:43

hello
name changer here. I feel weird that I know you and you don't me, like a creepy stalker, but hey, it was time for a name change.

WhatWould - I read your last paragraph as being about "women can't reach the top shelves as chefs." This is a problem I have: I quite often invest far too much effort into trying to stir things in a too-small bowl (insane with dcs) rather than just getting a chair to stand on and getting the big one out of the top cupboard. However I would be surprised to find The Food Programme devoting an issue to it.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 28/10/2014 09:50

rosdearg Grin I am lucky as quite tall and wear heels, so can usually reach shelves.

Just before I switched off in rage, Sheila Dillon (sp?) was incredulous that one of the women chefs didn't enjoy domestic cooking - what was the difference?? 'Not being paid' I screeched at the radio ...

UptoapointLordCopper · 28/10/2014 10:20

Another unlikely food-related quote:

DS1:"I think we've had enough chocolate stuff now." Hmm

I have an ikea stool in every room of the house that has a tall shelf. Wink

BecauseIsaidS0 · 28/10/2014 10:43

Good morning,

Here is my morning rage. Study proves that the gender gap is closing in Nordic countries and Rwanda and the comments section is full with assertions that the gender gap doesn't exist or that women just don't want to work that hard.

Pumpkin, I've been a hiring manager and found a couple of awesome employees that would probably have been dismissed by a male manager by virtue of having a slightly different career path, and they've turned out to be real assets. I find that male managers tend to go with relevant experience while I've focused more on intelligence - is this person bright enough to learn the job?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/10/2014 10:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BecauseIsaidS0 · 28/10/2014 11:13

It's weird because for me it's so obvious: hire the bright person; the will catch up. Yet I see people hiring these (mostly) guys who have been in the industry for ages, changing jobs every few years when their managers realize that they are rather mediocre.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/10/2014 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorkingBling · 28/10/2014 15:22

My rant for the day (and sorry to totally change the topic). I work in a lose collaboration of people in a shared office. I received an email today from one of the women, sent to everyone, about a Christmas get together. In her email she says, "[male colleague] wants us to have a Christmas party..." and then suggests dates and venues etc. I haven't been here but knowing the characters involved I imagine they've been chatting about it but why is it always the WOMAN who finds herself organising? It really winds me up.

BecauseIsaidS0 · 28/10/2014 15:54

I hate that! In my office, the junior women get dumped all the organisational tasks on them "because they are better than the guys". The problem with that is, the guys have then much more free time to devote to the technical tasks, which are, at the end of the day, the ones that will be looked at when assessed for promotion. I've called them out on it a few times to no avail.

WorkingBling · 28/10/2014 17:28

They don't even work together. Just share office space!!

AskBasil · 28/10/2014 20:09

It's always the women who organise the SecretSanta, the fridge rota, the milk and tea and coffee ... all those things which make day to day office life easier and more pleasant.

And the men just take it as their due.

Zazzles007 · 29/10/2014 08:30

And the men just take it as their due.

Yep, that's really crap. In once truly misogynistic workplace I did a short contract in, sexist and misogynistic comments abounded, and were the norm Hmm. I hated it. One memorable one was a competition last Xmas, where different departments were decorating their sections with office-made Xmassy things. One of the sexist males commented that another department would do very well as they "had more women [in their department]". The next day, I loudly made a comment about how I was "not at all artsy and crafty", and one other woman, and another man agreed that they were not either. What a twat Hmm.

PumpkinGordino · 29/10/2014 08:56

in my company we get two optional (paid) days off per year in additional to annual leave that we can take to help with charitable activities or some sort of service to the community. e.g. some people organise an onsite fundraising activity, others help out at a community centre, one colleague is a trustee for a charity and she uses the time for meetings they have

very very few men use it, it is mostly women who use the time. and the MOST infuriating thing is when a group of women has organised an onsite fundraising activity, and then men turn up and make comments about how things could have been done better. WELL FUCKING VOLUNTEER FOR THE COMMITTEE AND GET INVOLVED IN THE ORGANISING THEN

rosdearg · 29/10/2014 09:19

In my office some of the men are organising Movember. Women are being asked to be Mo-Sisters which means supporting men to talk about their health and having healthy active lifestyles. We are all being invited to a (bring your own food) lunch about it. I am being a bit unwomanly here and will be supporting as a Mo-Sister pushing my own agenda: while we are talking about men's physical and mental health, in a work context, can we talk about the very pertinent issue of work life balance?

I would love to work with a bunch of healthy happy men who lower their risk of suicide (and their wives risk of PND but ssssshhhhhh) by fucking off out of the office at a reasonable hour. (disclaimer: the link between male suicide and long working hours is entirely made up, by me)

rosdearg · 29/10/2014 09:28

PS actually reconsidering whether I am a feminist at all after reading this very important article:

www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-support-feminism-if-it-means-murdering-all,37301/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default#

BriarRainbowshimmer · 29/10/2014 10:16

I suggest women only-Secret Santa and tea etc.

Then men get to experience how it is to organise their own, if they want to have it too.

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