Just got on a train...

[Vivacia]

...sat actions from a table of four men discussing paying for sex. I couldn't believe my ears at first, wasn't really listening and then it became clear.
Finished with, "the only time I paid for It is the day I got married".

There's usually not a huge (daily) risk of sexually transmitted diseases, rape, violence or murder when cleaning toilets.

....actually I DO clean toilets without being paid. I do it because it needs doing. I don't enjoy it but it has to be done and there's no shame in it.
I really can't see what that has to do with sex at all.
Nor do I despise people who are paid for doing it, I'm grateful to them and hope they have decent pay and conditions altho they probably don't.

Also, to strain the metaphor to breaking point, a toilet cleaner's union wouldn't be almost exclusively run, funded and managed by toilet manufacturers, toilet users, those who wish to exploit toilet cleaners, people who clean sinks. They also wouldn't be seen to be deliberate working against the toilet cleaners best interests.

I don't understand the toilet comment. I've cleaned toilets for a living, I was a chambermaid. I had a range of options. I didn't do it to fuel a drug habit or because my boyfriend threatened me with violence or because I'd been trafficked or tricked in to thinking I was going to be a nanny. I didn't do it because I'd been sexually abused from a young age. I didn't do it because the alternative was to thieve. I didn't do it because I didn't have a friend in the world or didn't speak English.

Very telling analogy from buw "people don't clean toilets if they don't get paid".

Of course not. 'People' don't. 'Women' do.

I bet buw has someone to clean his toilets for him.

Also the cleaning toilets analogy reveals that fact that particular poster, while trying to speak for punters, reveals that in their mind working as a prostitute is an undesirable, unpleasant job that most people would rather not do if there were other options available.

So, big fail all round there really.

So tell me, out of all paid jobs and work in the world which ones would people happily do for no payment?

None that involve being paid to be raped.

HTH

It's a shame men are so much bigger and threatening than us. If they weren't you could have photographed/recorded him and posted it on the internet saying 'Hey, the poor woman who married this man. He views you as a very expensive prostitute and goes round telling his mates as much.'

Erm loads of people do voluntary work of many different types.

HTH.

It is a bit dull isn't it.

And I'm not sure how this relates to discussing this on a train

Ah so this was that poster's first post on here:

"Terrible.

We should make it illegal to take about prostitution in public places."

So his answer is, men should feel free to discuss sex acts they have performed on prostitutes, or got prostitutes to perform on them, in any and all public situations, complete with derogatory comments about the women.

So that's his POV quite clear then. It's one that is unlikely to be shared by more than a tiny minority of our society.

I too clean toilets for no payment...I clean my own, my parent's and my uncle's, as he lives alone with no children so I do that because I love him. So I am really confused about Bug's analogy/point here.

Aargh...Buw!!!! Darn autocorrect. (haha...Bug!!)

"I've cleaned toilets for a living, I was a chambermaid. I had a range of options. I didn't do it to fuel a drug habit or because my boyfriend threatened me with violence or because I'd been trafficked or tricked in to"

Most sexworkers also have options and don't have a drug habit or because they have been threatened.

@SevenZarkSeven, ah so you DO want to pass laws to ban people discussing sexwork in public?

Anything else you want to make illegal? Wouldn't it be easier to just draw up a list of conversation topics that are acceptable to discuss in the presence of feminsits?

buw given that you think it is quite reasonable for groups of men to talk about sex acts in public in the UK, in any situation where they feel like it, I don't think your opinions hold much water really. You obviously are totally oblivious to the norms of our society.

do you think discussing prostitution on a train with adults and/or children that you don't know is acceptable in our society?

"CaptChaos Mon 15-Sep-14 21:15:56

None that involve being paid to be raped."

Isn't giving consent up to adult sexworkers themselves? Do you think they really need/want feminists to decide for them?

I'm against prostitution and I find the idea of a group of men discussing using prostitutes on a train full of people hostile and anti-social but surely the main issue here is that this man sees wives as nothing more than prostitutes. He doesn't love or respect his wife, he pays for her and uses her services. Isn't this how some men do see their wives? A paid cleaner, nanny and prostitute all in one?

x-post but answered your question quite well.

Ignoring all the attempts to sidetrack, vivacia I think these kind of conversations are so offensive for so many reasons. I generally take the view that if the conversation would not have taken place in front of their wives and girlfriends I assume that the men are at the very least mildly misogynist, even not outright sexist pigs.

The comments about his wife are equally offensive.

Dh has largely lost contact with a group of male friends after a conversation at a stag do. He was gob smacked at what these men he considered friends were saying and knew they would never speak like that in front of their wives. Awful.

"In my opinion, most sexworkers also have options and don't have a drug habit or because they have been threatened". There. Fixed that for you. Unless you have sources based on proper research?

Discussing your sex life, especially one that you have had to buy, in public, using terms that are demeaning to the people you are using for sex, makes you look like a sad, pathetic scumbag.

So does defending such discussions on a public forum.

But if that's the look you are aspiring to, then knock yourself out ...