Feminist Pub IX. Newbies and regulars welcome - pop your cognitive dissonance down outside and have a gin.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Right, thought I'd better start a new pub. I warn you, my knowledge of Roman numerals conks out shortly after this one, so either buffy will have to start the next thread, or we'll have to go Arabic.

Everyone is welcome in - if you want to chat, or just jump in with a question/link/gin, please do. Especially if it's too small for a thread or you don't feel up to thread-starting.

The old thread has, at my count, about 9 posts to go, and it was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2126791-Feminist-Pub-VIII-not-as-prolific-as-the-Swaggerers-but-there-are-cushions-and-consciousness?

We were just chatting about feministy light reading, and will doubtless meander onto other topics shortly.

the thing that's so stark to me about those threads is that actually, many feminists (and non-feminists too) do get it. not how specific individuals feel as of course no one can know that, but that feeling of not matching up as you should and the distress and pain and self-hatred. not for everyone of course, but for so many. the amount of physical and mental damage i have done to myself because i don't meet the ideal in terms of behaviour and appearance for my sex makes my (male) dp cry

Petula.

I often reflect how lucky I am that alongside not conforming to female stereotypes, I have been blessed with not giving a shiny shit. I have an inner confidence that is very, dare I say it, unfeminine and unwomanly.

I wish I knew when/how I had found it so I could share it with other women. I used to be the least confident person in the world.

While it is of course fantastic how many people are waking up to the damage gender stereotypes can cause, it's still fucking depressing how many more just sleepwalk through life thinking that boys will be boys and like blue trucks and girls will be girls and like dolls, and are genuinely baffled as to what the rest of us are banging on about.

it really helps being around women who don't give a shiny shit annie

it is a bit like being deprogrammed after being held hostage. i had a therapist once who, after i had said that i was worried about putting on weight and not being able to fit into my "ideal" clothes, just said "so buy bigger clothes" . this BLEW MY MIND

to be clear, it wasn't the suggestion itself that blew my mind, but the fact that she thought that this was a perfectly acceptable thing to do that didn't mean i was an abject failure

fucked up i know

lordcopper my neighbour plays the french horn. i really enjoy listening to her learning a new piece as i learn the structure of it sort of by osmosis. plus she's really really good

DH and I had a very brief discussion about me not fitting back into pre-pregnancy clothes (TBF I was naturally quite thin pre-pregnancy).

Me: Can't fit back into these clothes. Do you know how much effort it took to amass these? >

DH: So buy new ones.

Me: Alright.

Still, it was a shame. Some nice clothes there, especially a lovely simple dress in bright orange/yellow/red stripes which I still remember. But actually that was tight even then ...

Annie I also can't remember how I arrive in the state I'm in now where I can see where I don't fit but don't give a damn about it.

Petula The problem is I'm not very good at all.

Well you won't get good unless you practice

"after i had said that i was worried about putting on weight and not being able to fit into my "ideal" clothes, just said 'so buy bigger clothes'."

I'm so glad that's helpful, because that's what I say to people all the time. Not that I don't take people seriously if they're worrying about their weight for health reasons, but I have friends who are ready to give up eating because they've gone from an 8 to a 10. I think it's the notion that if you go up one dress size, it will never end and in no time at all you'll need airlifting from your house. Whereas what it actually means is Oxfam or whoever get your old jeans, and you pop down the shops and get some new ones, before continuing with your life.

*practise actually, I think

lordcopper i'm assuming if you're learning the partita no 2 you're not just a very overoptimistic beginner

i'm thinking of taking up a stringed instrument as a beginner. you can all pity my neighbours

You should definitely take up a stringed instrument, Petula! They are fab.

In my head I can give an amazing performance of Bach's cello suites. Unfortunately when I actually put bow to string it doesn't sound quite the same

Petula I'm not a beginner but definitely overoptimistic ...

DS1 plays the cello. I'm a bit envious. I would love to be able to play Bach's cello suites and Schubert's arpeggione sonata Unfortunately I can just about play twinkle twinkle little star at first position ... Same with the violin... I fantasise about taking up one of these instruments when I retire. And then play in a quartet. The Trout or Death and the Maiden would do.

Clearly overoptimistic - Trout is not even a quartet ...

as with all these things you have to basically be selfish with your time and energy in order to excel (see a room of one's own etc)

even before children this can be difficult for a woman, but after...!

Yes - I'm leaving DS1 and DS2 upstairs to sort out their own quarrel while I bang on the piano. So:

1. They will learn to sort out their own quarrel.
2. I will have learned one more bar of a very long piece of music.
3. The neighbours would be wondering what's going on.

Actually I can hear the glockenspiel upstairs. Either they've sorted out their quarrel or they have decided to separate or one of them is playing it to wind the other up.

Is it too early for ? I'm in pre-holiday panic stress mode. We're going on holiday at the weekend, I have one day left in the office, I've got 2 significant chunks of work to do and my secretary keeps allowing people to put meetings in my diary for tomorrow (despite the fact I blocked the whole day out as 'busy' weeks ago. So instead of exercise and an early night, I'm going to have to boot up my laptop and work. Actually better make that a - otherwise I might be tempted to provide some very honest responses to today's set of emails.

DD2 chose a pink Kinder Egg as her treat from the shops earlier. This was our first encounter with the new gendered eggs.

This was in it.

I want to weep.

The little stand is also a comb to brush the tiny ponytail of actual plastic hair she has spouting out of the back.

Remember when Kinder Eggs has toys that actually required some assembly, had moving parts, could actually be played with and were gender fucking neutral!?!

That's really awful.

what is she supposed to be? what's that thing behind her back?

OublietteBravo Where are you going? We haven't done any proper holiday due to circumstances outside our control. I find myself looking at centre parc website ...

I would like to go somewhere with a swimming pool and we'll just all soak in it all day, with a few breaks to go on MN.

Now's not the time to tell you that I collected the whole set of Marvel characters from Kinder eggs is it? No.. okkkk.

Oubliette, surely your secretary should also be working late, given that it was then that messed tomorrow up for you in the first place?

We're going to the Netherlands and the on to Denmark. I'm really looking forward to having a break - after tomorrow I'm not back at work until the start of the new school year.

Can't imagine my secretary working late - she barely works her contracted hours as it is (her performance is being monitored by HR). I am going to see what I can dump on someone else delegate though. And tomorrow I'm leaving my laptop and company phone locked in my office cupboard.

Decided that exercise was necessary (and more sensible than alcohol), so feeling calmer now.