"Women against feminism" WTF?!!

[Desperate2012]

Really. Just heard about this as a "thing". Honestly, like there aren't enough important issues out there some women feel their biggest battle is AGAINST feminism. Lets just shoot ourselves in the foot then. Gaaaah!!! Had to get that off my chest

"All men are rapists" is a line said by a fictional character in a novel. She was a woman who had been in abusive relationships without being aware of it all her life, and was at that point becoming aware of how badly she had been treated,and that, actually,for her at that point all men had been rapists. But she was a fictional character.

I find it completely baffling that people will take one thing that somebody they perceive to be feminist says that they don't like and reject the whole of feminism on the strength of it. And frequently they are things that no feminist has actually said- they are just things that the press, or anti feminists said they said. Somebody on their thread has already stated that they won't identify as a feminist because they love their husband and sons. What on earth is that about?

Since the 80's when I dabbled in radical feminism, there's be so much change -for example, wages fir housework, views on sex workers etc.
I think a woman should neither feel that she can't identify with feminism based on a single aspect of it, nor feel they need to 'toe the party line'!

Fair enough Curwen. I shall change it to

"Some women will treat all men as potential rapists."

Although my original version was based on the comment about walking home and crossing the road.

All humans are capable of vile, violent, despicable behaviour. Do women cross the road when passing another woman in case she is a violent mugger? I doubt it.

Makes me want to quit life when I see young women posting this shit. Don't like feminism? Why not try going to live somewhere other than your western, reasonably affluent home. Without fail these women are middle class, educated, fairly well of white (mainly) young women who haven't yet entered the workforce or had a child. They'll be looking back at these images in 10 years and cringing at their own naivety.

Slarti nope that's not what I'm saying. I don't see women making man hating comments in the name of feminism. I often see men or antifeminist women making man-hating statements ("they can't help themselves") in the name of equalism - whatever that is (it's nothing).

I agree with Hakluyt. It's like when MRAs say that someone somewhere on the internet said that boys should be killed at birth and therefore all feminism is evil when girls are actually being killed before birth in the millions because of patriarchal values. The possibility, however unrealistic, of boys being killed is so much more important than the actual reality of literally millions of girls being killed before and after birth because of their observed biological sex.

"All humans are capable of vile, violent, despicable behaviour. Do women cross the road when passing another woman in case she is a violent mugger? I doubt it."

Er, probably because the chances of another woman being a violent mugger is practically zero? The chances of another woman making a comment on your appearance or saying something uncalled for is practically zero?

If I was in a crowd, I would protect my purse from pickpockets- I would not consider the gender of the people around me remotely relevant. Walking down a lonely road at night? Yep- the gender of the only other person around sure as hell is relevant. 99 men out of a 100, 999 out of 1000- no problem. But experience has taught women to be watchful for the 1.

Sorry, my example of walking home late at night wasn't the best. I wanted to distinguish between saying that all men have the potential to be a rapist, and the fact that from a woman's perspective, we simply don't know who is a rapist and who isn't. Any individual man you meet could potentially be a rapist.

Some people are buying into the myth here that the majority of assaults by men on women are committed in dark alleys by strangers. I believe that statistically, male on female assaults occur between people who know each other in domestic situations. So if you want to be on your guard, do it at home with your partner.

I find it completely baffling that people will take one thing that somebody they perceive to be feminist says that they don't like and reject the whole of feminism

I don't take it as they are rejecting the whole of feminism. What they object to is the negative aspects of/associated with feminism. That isn't too say the concept of feminism is negative, it's acknowledging that it can and has been misused. Failing to acknowledge that is a massive case of denial, and trying to equate it with a wholesale rejection of feminist principals of equality is disingenuous imo.

It's a bit like saying the Union Jack stands for democracy and freedom and denying that anyone could want to distance themselves from it because some people associate it with racism.

How can you take one negative thing you associate with feminism and dismiss the whole concept and NOT take even a fleeting glance at patriarchy or just the current set up pretty much everywhere and think the same thing?!

Selective blindness?

"I don't take it as they are rejecting the whole of feminism. What they object to is the negative aspects of/associated with feminism. That isn't too say the concept of feminism is negative, it's acknowledging that it can and has been misused."

Could you give me some examples of the negative aspects?

My instinct is to say that these women are handmaidens and man-pleasers

Sorry but don't you realise how offensive that is? If a woman doesn't subscribe to the feminist concept she automatically is a man pleaser?
Isn't this the sort of bullshit we're supposed to be fighting against?

As I've already said, if a young woman's first experience of feminism or feminist writing is from the idiots of 'tumblr feminism' then it's absolutely no wonder they're not willing to engage with feminism. This is a problem and it needs combating. Luckily feminists are now speaking out against them and are being noticed more, separating themselves from the misandrists.

I found this interesting itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/

How can you take one negative thing you associate with feminism and dismiss the whole concept and NOT take even a fleeting glance at patriarchy or just the current set up pretty much everywhere and think the same thing?!

You're assuming anyone has rejected the whole concept and not taken even a fleeting glance at patriarchy.

Could you give me some examples of the negative aspects?

I think quite a few were given upthread, things like hate speech.

One that particularly annoys me is that male to female transgender is nothing but sexual fetishism and refuse to acknowledge anything else

Know it's a bit off topic, but can someone tell me if I've got this right - that (some/all?) feminists believe that because gender is a social construct, transgendered men to women cannot be recognised as women in the true sense?

I realise that I've probably just made a complete arse of myself there, and have probably completely misunderstood, but I've read a couple of threads which seem to suggest that

Oooh - weird cross post!

sirchenjin I thought it was that they would be transwomen, but not women?

But not recognised as a woman?

I suppose it depends on what the purpose of identifying them as women would be.

So would a transwoman (potentially still with male genitalia) be classed as a woman and allowed in woman only spaces (say in prisons or domestic violence shelters for women only)?

Why differentiate? Transgendered women are women, surely?