AmnestyInternational Prostitution

[JuliaScurr]

Please tweet #Amnesty agm in support of Nordic Model
Pimps out in force

OldLady, I respect you as a fellow MNer - whose views differ from me, but that's ok. But former's posts on here are mighty strange - fresh from the tweet of this thread too.

You know HQ don't like single-issue posters - who sign up just to push a particular agenda.

Sabrina, I'm not arguing that women have yet achieved equality, not in the UK, and certainly not globally; AI, the reason for this thread, was/were looking at prostitition in a global sense, and yes, women and their dc would starve to death if the Nordic Model were introduced and enforced globally (which ain't never gonna happen).

I would use biological arguments (which you would probably discount, so I won't enlarge) as to why men are more likely to buy sex than women are.

You still haven't explained why punters should be criminalised, but relationships (however abusive) should be OK?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones

Thank you for going to the trouble to find the thread for me and truly sorry for thinking it was just a hypothetical you made up...that was not nice.

BTW you do know that male and female sexuality works very differently in irrevocable ways and that is why more men buy sex than women.

Put really bluntly, men are far more (though not exclusively) driven to impersonal sex for sex sake than women are.

Men will always want sex that women have no active wish to give unless they have additional incentive, such as payment.

...and, of course there are plenty of women selling sex as a matter of life and death and I am not sure why you want to make fun of that?

It isn't very funny to be honest.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones

I would have thought my username, and my first posts (ages ago) made it abundantly clear that I was a single issue poster.

If mumsnet do not like that they do not like that and it is their board.

If they ban me I guess I will just have to try to resist the urge to commit seppuku...though, of course that will be hard.

:(

BTW you do know that male and female sexuality works very differently in irrevocable ways and that is why more men buy sex than women.

No, I don't know that. I think it's a social construct.

Xpost, Sabrina. Yes, I know this thread has been tweeted, it turned up on my own timeline. But aformer has been consistent in her arguments, for many hours now, and hasn't posted anything that I can see would break guidelines, single-issue or not. Didn't we all arrive here for our own reasons?

I also respect your right to have opinions which differ from mine, and am glad that MN affords us all the right to express same, with respect and good manners.

Now, I've spent most of the day arguing my pov on indyref issues, and I just heard DH going to the loo. I should really bugger off to bed, and rejoin tomorrow.

I'm not asking MNHQ to ban you, btw, former - and I sincerely doubt flora is. Honestly - check out our posts on this forum -we don't condemn women who are sexworkers. We really don't.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones

It makes me very happy to know that you are not threatening me.

But, of course the difference between male and female sexuality is hard wired and not a social construct. You would only have to spend a day o a farm at the right time of the year to see that for yourself, and, at the end of the day, biologically we are just another animal.

I don't agree, former. We are humans, we have humanity. But I can't be arsed to go into it any more now - it's v late. Night all.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones

Well I have looked at the thread and I honestly do not see how zeffa101 could have been more respectful and honest if he tried.

A huge part of interpersonal respect is giving other people credit for being fit to take responsibility for making their own decisions based on full information, which he did.

(Some people need to be self reliant and stand on their own two feet to have any self respect.)

He was also honest, forthright and polite with you all whatever you threw at him.

If I live a 1000 years I will never understand why anybody would dream of assuming that another human being is better off stranded in utter desperation with nowhere to turn than choosing to sell sex to try and work through that.

Way past my bedtime now, and it is bad for me to waste too much time on this kind of discussion instead of doing the things I need to do, so bye bye...

...oh and no need to act out...when I leave a discussion I never check back...so you will just be wasting a lot of well thought out provocation.

I see you're that person who has been harassing Rachel Moran. Well none of us on here have been "accepting she is a fraud" except perhaps OLKN. But that helps puts your posts into context a bit. Your approach to "proving" RM is a fraud is as bizarre as your posts on here.

I'm not a RadFem either but I don't need to jump to deny it because it is not an insult, simply not correct. I'm also not asking MN to ban you, just noting.

I can see you would have a warped view of sexuality after so many years of being paid for sex you didn't want. But of course you are wrong.

Male and female sexuality is different because there is hardly any risk for men when it comes to intercourse. They don't get pregnant. They like having sex without condoms with prostitutes and pay more for the privilege. WTF? Sometimes I wonder whether men are human at all when I hear that they want to fuck some girl "bareback" (no condom). Diseases surely transmit more easily from men to women than from women to men, because the nature of intercourse means that fluid is deposited inside the woman: in other words men are the disease- carriers of the world.

Couple this with the fact that men have designed society so that they have more money than women and we begin to see how vulnerable all women are, as a group. That's even before we get to the fact that men are physically stronger, and violence towards women seems to be in their nature.

So there is no equality between men and women when it comes to sex, and OLKS has a point when she brings up abusive relationships. SO why is prostitution different to marriage? Well, there's a radfem argument that marriage is prostitution, but it's just more socially acceptable. But there is something very insidious about society's view of prostitutes. Something so dangerous to women. There's something about prostitutes that makes men angry, though I'm not sure exactly what it is because I'm not a man. All women's groups can do is keep trying to talk women out of selling themselves.

Decriminalization comes with its own set of problems, as does the abolition stance. I have no idea which is best.

I don't think I've even mentioned Rachel Moran, have I, let alone harassed her? I guess you mean aformer (with whom I have had no other interaction, so far as I am aware, whether on Twitter or elsewhere).

But just fyi, yes, I think Moran is a fake, fraud, however you want to phrase it. I believe the other women who say they worked the streets and brothels she claims to have worked, but who don't recognise her, despite her saying she was positioned less than 100 yards from them on the streets, and that there was a close community amongst streetworkers at that time. I believe the other sexworkers who say Moran can't identify other high-profile brothel owners/workers from the time she says she was working.

I believe the other sexworker who was offered lots of publicity/dosh/and a book deal if she'd sell her soul to the nuns who ran the Magdalene Laundries, enslaving women and trafficking their babies, who refuse to pay a share of compensation to survivors, and who continue to profit from the exploitation of some of the most vulnerable women in Ireland.

Nice of you to sneak that in when you thought we'd all gone to bed, btw, was just having one last refresh myself. No doubt by the time I come back, there will be many other posts, so you thought yours would be lost.

Sneaky, Flora, and very snidey; typical of your sort though.

And none of it relevant to the actual discussion of human rights for sexworkers, all of it aimed at discrediting those of us who are actually in favour of same.

OLKN why the fuck would I post something hoping it would get lost?? I won't take advice on ethics from someone who panders to mens' rights to fuck women who don't want them.

You said you'd read the twitter link so how come you don't know aformer is the person you're speaking about. Now that I've read these posts on here, her behaviour makes a bit more sense. Since she believes she is the most intelligent person she has ever met, it doesn't surprise me that she thinks she can remember everyone she met in the middle of the night 20 years ago. Or she's lying.

"Or she's lying."

Or maybe Rachel Moran is the one who is lying.

Rachel also claims to have been charged with something which wasn't even illegal at the time. And right now Rachel is in USA (and if she really had any sort of sexwork related charge they wouldn't have let her in)

There are so many holes in those tales she vomits up

A woman pretending to be a prostitute telling lies to try and drum up support for criminalization? If Rachel is a liar it isn't the first time. It's already happened in Amsterdam...

www.thisamsterdam.com/talesfromthecity/2013/03/fake-prostitute-advises-amsterdam-on-pro.php

Harassing Rachel Moran because she tells a different story to the one you want people to hear, is disgusting.

+1 what Buffy said.

Hear hear Buffy (now go finish your thesis!)

Noone is "harassing" Rachel. We are just pointing out holes in her story and how it is strange noone can remember her and how rachel is unable to say who anyone else is or even what the laws were at the time she says she worked.

And also the fact she has been caught putting funds meant for her NGO into her own personal bank account.