Amnesty International says laws against buying sex breach men's human rights

[DonkeySkin]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545003/Amnesty-calls-legal-prostitution-Charity-says-laws-ban-people-buying-selling-sex-breach-human-rights.html

The organisation is planning to adopt a position that calls for the full decriminalisation of the sex industry, including johns and pimps.

It is tabling a paper for its UK branch to vote on that says it is a human right for 'consenting adults' to purchase sexual consent from another person (regardless of the desperate circumstances that person may be in, presumably). The paper also devotes time to that latest favourite cover-all for sex-industry advocates, 'the rights of the disabled', as a reason to allow the continuing expansion of the global sex industry with no oversight or concern from governments.

Apparently the human rights of the (overwhelmingly) women and girls who are coerced, trafficked and enslaved inside the sex industry to satisfy the demand from men for paid sex are of no concern.

Oh, sorry - Amnesty does remember to devote a whole two words to this, conceding that prostitution takes place in an 'imperfect context'. That would presumably be the context of a worldwide patriarchy that devalues female human beings, denies them education, safety and fairly paid work, and tells men they have the right to use their bodies for sex regardless of their actual desires. Not to mention, systemic racism, colonialism and exploitative capitalism.

Good to know Amnesty is prepared to stand up for the most vulnerable people on earth - male sex buyers.

@Whenthered

So Malms, do you buy sex from men? If not, why not?

No, I don't. Because a man can't massage me in the same way a woman can. There are men who buy sex from men, though.

Do you sell sex? If not, why not?

No, I don't. Because I lack the goods. And the guts.

Do you agree that people should lose their benefits if they refuse to sell sex?

Hahaha! Nice try.

You are have an arsehole though, malms. Some men like to buy them.

@SabrinaMulhollandJjones

Roasted the arse of whom? Hahaha! I think otherwise.

Guys, do not overrate yourself.

No punter's ever done the distance here, malms.

They all scuttle off in the end, or are banned.

@SabrinaMulhollandJjones

You have an arsehole though, malms. Some men like to buy them.

I know but, as I said, I lack the guts. Goods are not enough.

I'll agree you lack guts, malms.

@SabrinaMulhollandJjones

No punter's ever done the distance here, malms.
They all scuttle off in the end, or are banned.

I would bet that the latter is way more likely. "If you can't argue with them then ban them." For what is worth, I have been banned from punters' forum, too. Apparently, I was too considerate towards sex workers.

I will just shrug.

malms the evidence of why women like us are against the sexual exploitation of vulnerable women by men is here on this thread in the arguments we make. Any further "truth" you may think you "know" would have to be unfounded speculation on your part. However, based on your posts, we can see that you are an abuser and exploiter of women.

We can also see that you're not very good at constructing arguments. You've thrown in whataboutery and false equivalence along with your unfounded speculation and you haven't RTFT. All in all, not a very good first effort on FWR. Must try harder.

Apparently, I was too considerate towards sex workers.

Quite an admission - you'd agree that most punters do treat prostitutes badly then?

And MNHQ don't ban people for their opinions - just for breaking guidelines. Some of the punters we've had joining MN seem to find it hard to keep their tempers.

You've been banned from pnter websites for being too considerate and yet you're a "proud" pnter..

@WhentheRed

At least Malms is one of those punters who admits the gendered nature of prostitution.

Not at all. Prostitution is not gendered by nature, albeit the reality is that women account for the majority of it.

Also, he admits that prostitution is not just a job like any other.

Indeed it isn't. You have to be a smart gal to be a successful escort.

He also admits that it is thoroughly unpleasant for the woman. He likens it to working in a sweatshop.

It can be unpleasant but, unlike a sweatshop, at least you are paid well. Otherwise smart women would look elsewhere.

Garth, it must have been the other punters that fucked the prostitute who had 2 broken arms, then.

Re gendered by nature - the majority of prostitutiors aka p^nters are men, wouldn't you agree?

A punter never knows how much the women he is having sex on is actually being paid but he deludes himself with the notion that it's well paid. He doesn't know how much she pays to website pimps, landlord pimps, boyfriend pimps, drug dealer pimps, loanshark pimps or just straight up pimps. We know for example that migsy was charging 30 quid for half an hour when she was 7 months pregnant, giving 40% of that to her "friend" as well as paying rent on the room she uses and paying her advertising. We know from the information about the German brothels that the women have to be fucked by approximately 4 men a night just to break even on their costs.

A punter looks at everything through the lens of selfish indifference. So long as everything ends up with his right to have sex on women who don't want him, that's all that matters.

@FloraFox

There was an investigation by the Parliament of my country, regarding the amount of exploitation in the sex trade. They found out that exploited women were a minority. Around 10%, if I remember correctly, which is still too high, in my opinion, but then they looked among street sex workers, where you are more likely to find illegal immigrants.

Unfortunately, I can't quote that paper because... it has disappeared from the Parliament's website (I read an archived copy at the time). Considering that my country is ruled by the Catholic Church, I suppose that such truths didn't sit well with somebody with an agenda.

@SabrinaMulhollandJjones

Quite an admission - you'd agree that most punters do treat prostitutes badly then?

No, I don't. It was a power trip for forum moderators, though. I suspect that they harbored inferiority complexes. And may I say lacked enough intellect.

It is true that a couple of escorts have remarked on how exceedingly polite and respectful I was, compared to the average client, but that does not mean that the average client is a bad person. Just average. I am above average, that is.

There are bad apples among punters. And I am afraid that making things go underground won't help sex workers in defending themselves against abuse.

We should look for other ways. Maybe, by making things more transparent, for instance.

And MNHQ don't ban people for their opinions - just for breaking guidelines.

I hope so.

Some of the punters we've had joining MN seem to find it hard to keep their tempers.

That won't be the case with me, I promise ;-)

@GarthsUncle Mon 10-Mar-14 17:38:25

You've been banned from pnter websites for being too considerate and yet you're a "proud" pnter..

What? Is "punter" a too strong word around here that you feel the need to write "p^nter" instead? O_o

I will write "client", then. See how considerate I am? ;-)

I am a proud client because I don't see anything dirty in paid sex and I respect sex workers like anybody else.

I meant you were proud of being a pnter despite the fact that pnter forums had banned you for being too considerate.

Malms how do you know the women you pay to fuck are not underage or trafficked? Do you think they'd tell you if they were?

Do you believe that laws should aim to protect the most vulnerable in society?

If that report is correct (and we know nothing about its scope, methodology or definition of exploited), it seems good evidence for criminalising pimps and punters. That is the way to deal with this unacceptable level of exploitation.

How amazing that two ethical punters just happen to come across the FWR section of Mumsnet.

Obviously if all punters were as considerate and altruistic as these two then I wouldn't have a problem with prostitution.

Then again.....................

@ WhentheRed

There was me thinking that Malms was going to be an honest, forthright, non-goady punter, but no. Playing coy like all the others, and with the usual sly digs. Ho hum.

Mmm... Am I missing anything? Maybe I just happen to have a different style of confrontation.

If you guys made a honest effort to understand me, the way I am doing with you, things would be better.

@FloraFox

A punter never knows how much the women he is having sex on is actually being paid but he deludes himself with the notion that it's well paid. He doesn't know how much she pays to website pimps, landlord pimps, boyfriend pimps, drug dealer pimps, loanshark pimps or just straight up pimps. We know for example that migsy was charging 30 quid for half an hour when she was 7 months pregnant, giving 40% of that to her "friend" as well as paying rent on the room she uses and paying her advertising. We know from the information about the German brothels that the women have to be fucked by approximately 4 men a night just to break even on their costs.

This comparison may bother you, but it is valid nonetheless: how much are employees in a company paid in relation to their production output? I worked as a consultant and my company took a nice cut from what I was paid. I knew consultants who had two companies taking cuts from what they were paid. It sucked, but it was the way it was.

The consensus among sex workers is that if you want to keep your fees for yourself, you have to go independent. As long as paying for sex is not a crime, sex workers and clients will have to worry about discretion. If it becomes a crime then sex workers and clients may have to rely on intermediaries, who know how to elude the law, and take a cut for it.

A punter looks at everything through the lens of selfish indifference.

Maybe like you do when you buy mobile phones, clothing, foreign goods, etc., as I said already?