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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

So I dropped off dd at the Brownies disco yesterday...

42 replies

GeorgianMumto5 · 12/12/2013 00:22

...just as the DJ was playing Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines. How, in the name of...anything, is that song even remotely suitable for a children's disco, never mind one run by an organisation which campaigns for an end to sexism?

I know I should have walked right back in and told them what I thought of their music choice, but I didn't. Dd knows there's a song out by some idiot who thinks it's ok to laugh at girls and not listen to them and she's pretty cross about that, but I don't think she knows which song it is. I was already half way down the path when I realised which song they were playing.

OP posts:

Greythorne · 12/12/2013 00:25

Fucking appalling.
I would have said something.

FannyFifer · 12/12/2013 00:26

"I'm sexy and I know it" at a recent 3 year olds birthday party, nope, not inappropriate at all.

AllIWantForChristmaaaasIsEWE · 12/12/2013 00:27

I've always found it ironic that Brownies and Guides campaign against sexism yet ...

They don't allow male children to join.

Nor do they allow men to become official Leaders/guiders.

Anyway, a lot of people seem to think this song is just a typical pop song. There's nothing wrong with it etc.

Then other people, mostly the people who have actually listened to the lyrics, realise it's a song about rape.

I assume the Brownie Leaders were just oblivious to the lyrics and played it because it's a popular song.

Maybe have a word with them about it next time you see them? Ask them if they've actually read the lyrics?

It's on the morning radio or playing in shops constantly. There's no hiding from it unfortunately.

Childrenofthestones · 12/12/2013 06:06

"I've always found it ironic that Brownies and Guides campaign against sexism yet ...

They don't allow male children to join.

Nor do they allow men to become official Leaders/guiders. "

That's ok because they don't allow women or girls into the scouts either........Oh no wait.

AllIWantForChristmaaaasIsEWE · 12/12/2013 09:30

Exactly my point. Hence the irony over them campaigning against sexism.

rutters1 · 12/12/2013 10:15

Oh the Irony..the sexist brownies campaigning against sexism

BringBackBod · 12/12/2013 10:31

What are the reasons given for boys not being allowed to join Brownies/Guides?
It does seem like double standards.

And yes, the song was inappropriate.

NiceTabard · 12/12/2013 20:29

I am surprised that people don't know why rainbows/brownies/guides is female only.

If you google I am sure there are explanations.

Also reading the report on sexism that the organisation just produced might give some clues.

HTH.

And yes of course the song was inappropriate.

NiceTabard · 12/12/2013 20:31

the report is here

It was quite widely reported in the media, last week, I'm surprised so many people missed it.

PartyFops · 12/12/2013 20:32

Do kids really listen to lyrics? I'm 35 and had heard this song many times, I hadn't really listened to the lyrics and only realised that there was uproar when reading about it on MN.

I'm not saying its right particularly, just that maybe theres less harm than you think.

curlew · 12/12/2013 20:35

Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are girl only because there are many girls throughout the world who would not be allowed to join if it was mixed.

Beavers, Cubs and Scouts decided to admit girls largely because numbers of boys wanting to join were diminishing rapidly. Admitting girls has given the movement a new lease of life.

MinesAPintOfTea · 12/12/2013 20:39

Kids learn lyrics and suing along. They might not understand the concept of rape at that age bit they can still internalise the message of a man ignoring his female target's wishes.

NiceTabard · 12/12/2013 20:48

The idea of a bunch of kids - most of whom will be praised with "good girl" - singing "good girl, I know you want it" is simply grim isn't it.

That whole song is grim but unfortunately insanely catchy.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles · 12/12/2013 21:12

So, a youth group choosing whom to have as it's membership is bad then? Just for info, not all scouting groups allow girls in them either, maybe we should go after them as well.

The Robin Thicke song is vile. There's no reasonable excuse for playing it at a children's disco.

SledYuleCated · 12/12/2013 21:25

As a guider, and as the one who ends up providing music for our parties, I choose the music carefully and would definitely not play Robin Thicke.

The poor girls end up with the questionable selection of suitable music I happen to own

Mainkster · 13/12/2013 07:41

Having one group for girls and one for boys isn't sexist! How ridiculous.
Pick your battles.
The issue of inappropriate sexualisation of pop songs and their accompanying videos is one to be extremely concerned about. Rihanna , Miley, Brittany all dress, speak and move in a way that creates a horrible sexist image for young people. They do this because it's how they make huge quantities of money and promote themselves so they can continue to make money. It's NOT about them "expressing themself as an artist". There's your issue.

Permanentlyexhausted · 14/12/2013 23:24

Is it sexist for girls and young women to be able to attend a club which allows them to spend time in an environment away from pressures to behave in a certain way because boys are present? Actually, I don't care if it is. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that there are substantial benefits for children to be able to do some activities away from members of the opposite sex. I think my son loses far more by having no activities he can do without girls being there (as there are girls in his cub pack) than my daughter does by not having boys at Brownies.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles · 15/12/2013 10:15

If parents want their sons to do activities away from girls, there are scout groups which don't allow girls to take part (Baden-Powell Scouts don't) or Boy's Brigade.

There are far more all male spaces waiting for buys when they grow up than all female ones, so for those who are whining about Brownie's being sexist for not allowing boys to join, I hope you're also whining about Gentlemen's Clubs, golf clubs, Freemasons etc etc etc which don't allow women to join them. I mean, fair's fair, isn't it? FWIW, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with any of them, but than again, I don't whine that Girl Guiding is sexist either

rutters1 · 15/12/2013 17:15

More beautiful irony.

A poster on mumsnet/feminism complaining about others whining..perfect

BarbarianMum · 19/12/2013 14:14

Oh well, that's perfectly alright then . And a great comfort to 5 year old boys everywhere (just 13 more years to go, lads).

There are actually very few choices for parents wanting an 'all boys' environment for their sons esp if they are not Christian. That doesn't bother me because I'm no fan of gender segregation by organisation/institution. Far better imo for organisations to offer seperate male/female groups, if they feel that some level of seperation is beneficial (like mixed gender schools who separate for certain ages/subjects).

ChestnutsroastingintheFireligh · 19/12/2013 14:17

It was probably requested.

I've only ever heard the Radio Edit on the radio & NOW album so don't know whatvthecfuss is about. Id be more concerned about the lipstick on my passport song whatever that's called.

CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles · 19/12/2013 15:40

No rutters1, just complaining about you whining, there's a huge difference. Sorry you needed that to be explained to you.

Barbarian... as I've said, twice already, but you seemed to ignore, there are scout groups which only admit boys, no girls, so a boys only space, go find one, then you will be happy. If you don't want your sons to go to scouts, then start a boys only youth group of your own.

BarbarianMum · 19/12/2013 15:56

There are very few 'traditional' scout groups around, probably because most of people (including myself) do not seek gender seperate groups for boys.

As I said, I don't like gender specific organisations, although I am fine with gender specific activities. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I was under the impression that part of the purpose of this site was for debate.

rutters1 · 20/12/2013 11:20

@CaptChaosGlitteryBaubles

Show me where I'm whining? You're the only one whining! 'huge difference' lol

'Gentlemen's Clubs, golf clubs, Freemasons' If you want these for your daughters then go out and start them (childish response isn't it?)

If you don't want segregation then it should be the same for both gender obviously.

SinisterSal · 20/12/2013 15:42

Rutters , this convo does seem slightly over your head, bless you. Being able to spell 'irony' isn't the same as understanding it. toodle pip.

Regarding one sex activities - there is one area where boys have a massive advantage over girls and that is in team sports. Team sports are wildly more popular among boys than girls, I'm sure there are many thoeries why. Of course that doesn't help the non sporty boys much, but it does go some way to explaining why there are more Girls activities than boys.

I don't have a problem with single sex activities really, when it's just optional hobbies.

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