The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

I do follow the Let Toys be Toys campaign. I think it's really important that children should not be limited in the way all these stereotyping does. But the comments are often disappointing ... We attempt all kinds of equality positive action type things at work, but really, we need to start a lot younger.

And the stats make me .

how depressing, another brain study "reinforces stereotypes".

Ok I am going to barge right in and be a right bloody curmudgeon about dd1's lovely Christmas show at school. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? You ask - yes - it was beautiful and sweet and lovely - but the bit that bothered me is that there were about 6 stars without names (all girls) and one Big Star (who was a boy). Poor old Big Star couldn't shine unless Generic Female Stars polished him up. why couldn't they have mixed up the sexes of the stars, to get away from this horrible dynamic of Central Male With Female Supporting Entourage? And if someone comes on here and says "it probably said that in the script" I thought it had been established that "merely following orders" is not an adequate defence! If it did say in the script that they should be 6 girls + 1 boy it would have been the easiest thing in the world to ignore it, without having to rewrite a word.
There were other bits of sexist casting too.

Should I say anything?
If so, how?

Hhhmm, hard to say. I wouldn't have liked the dynamic. But how old are they? What were the other bits of the play/parts?

I know only a couple of kids in DD1's reception class would have managed a 'big part' so it can be difficult.

What were the other bits of sexist casting?

Big Star didn't really have a much bigger part. All the kids who could handle it had one or two lines, no one had more than that. It was really well managed actually in terms of all the kids acting to their abilities - no one child had to carry the show and all those who were up to it had a moment to shine (some were nursery children). It wasn't that he was the star of the show, but that there was a coterie of all girl stars with a male centre.

there were about 12 narrators, mixed sexes (good)
all boy shepherds
all girl stars except Big Star

I absolutely loved the show, it was so well done in so many ways, except this male star being polished up by girls

male star being polished up by girls

Sorry, not a v feminist sentiment, but you have a way with words, mildred.
Tbh it would've bothered me too and I would've expected any switched on teacher to mix it up a bit, even just for the hell of it. But I can be an awkward bugger like that...

I love the Let Toys be Toys campaign, but don't really look at the website much. I suppose the comments are no different from what you get here when you complain about the tyranny of pink or navy/camouflage and random people say 'but my little girl likes pink'. Gah!

I am aghast at that estate agent - I just cannot believe this kind of stuff goes on! Surely the default should be that you are both on the mortgage and if that is NOT the case either one of you can correct them.

I've got a stinking cold and there is only so much Lemsip I can stomach, so it's just now

Belle I only heard it briefly in passing this morning about some study about "male and female brains". Will look it up later.

there is another thread noww. couldn't link on my phone. whatever the study actually says, the reporting just made my eyes roll back into my head!

Oh, the reporting drove me nuts too!

'Wired' differently, are they?

If I understand rightly, you can either study the brains (such as they are) of newborn babies and extrapolate results about differences between male and female brains (bearing in mind that even here, there is conditioning, it's just minimal compared to later). Or, you can study adults, in which case you are able to comment on the physical composition of the brain but you cannot be certain to what extent that physical composition has shaped itself according to the environment.

And that's leaving aside the fact that we do not know much at all about how the physical structure of the brain corresponds to the higher-level (or even lower level) thoughts it produces.

We are not so terribly different from Victorians who thought that since men's heads were on average bigger, they were on average brighter.

I know we all know this but it makes me so cross to see it not being said in the media.

Well, I am firmily of the belief that seeing we need our brains to study our brains, we'll never figure it out .

What study? Even the reporting passed me by - sounds like a lucky escape

Nicely put!

I dunno the study - it was reported in the Guardian and I couldn't be arsed to click the link TBH. It was something with a title about brains being 'wired differently' and that is enough to piss me off.

Pacific Thread on it. Very good posts there.

The study is on my FB newsfeed from the BBC. I don't dare look. Comments in the Beeb FB page tend to make me lost the will to live.

It's funny how everyone immediately seems to assume that "wired differently" means completely different levels of ability or liking totally different things, instead of us just being able to do the same things equally well, but by slightly different methods.

Ok, I am poorly, my nose is blocked and my feminism isn't working v well, so bear with me:
I read the abstract of the study (the full paper requires a subscription) and am I right in saying they looked at people aged 13 and older?? How does that prove anything about brain 'wiring'?
By the time your 13 surely lots of things have already happened to you and it's way too late to try and untangle 'nurture vs nature', non?

I am saying on the background of often looking at my boys and thinking 'a girl just Would Not Do That' - but then what do I know about girls ?

I think we are all more similar and whatever differences there are, are more differences between individuals rather than between genders.
In my, slightly woolly-brained opinion.

I am having a Lemsip btw and off to bed v soon.

I am off to bed, but is this another "Male and female brains look different = men and women are genetically pre-disposed to different skills" study. Oh, just set Cordelia Fine on them.

Taxi drivers have brains that are over developed in one particular area too. doesn't mean they were born black cabbies.

Causation, correlation. Exactly the same thing. No need to worry which you are looking at.

8 and older, pacific, but yes, of course.

And sorry you are not well - feel better soon!

Oh grr, just got out of drinks where someone I like was saying in good faith something about his 1 year old needing to be boisterous coz he's a boy .

News flash, female brains uniquely qualify little girls to Polish The Big Star! As proved by science, so nobody is allowed to argue.

Yes, women play a supporting role because their brains are wired so. Oh no, it's not because you are inferior, no no no. It's just that you are different! Don't you see? It's so important to have people doing the nurturing and supporting! So you are so very important! Not inferior at all! Just different.

Love the word "different" in that context, when it so clearly means "different to the norm, the norm being men."

Yes doctrine. I think that's the problem.

Just thought I'd pop in and say hi, since the topic of the pub came up on another thread. I'm in the corner with a large virtual glass of white burgundy!

I was just popping by to do the same!

I'm absolutely full of a cold so currently sitting by the fire with honey and lemon, but I'm (in real life) thoroughly enjoying the effects of too much medication, so perfectly content.

Except, you know, for the patriarchy.

Damn you the patriarchy. I blame the patriarchy for the fact that decongestants aren't allowed in pregnancy (also full of cold). It must be someone's fault. < waves fist half-heartedly>

Off to bed to snore loudly. With a stock of earplugs for when DH does. Oh the glamour of my life.

Oh, no, LRD, not you too - I hope you didn't catch my lurgie.

I am still miserable but will pull through

Otrivine nasal spray is my friend.

Where was Le Pub mentioned? I am intrigued...