The Feminist Pub - come on in, chat, ask a quick question, ramble ... whatever you like!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Hello and welcome! Pull up a chair!

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1875250-The-Feminist-Pub-is-Open-Chat-Rant-or-pull-up-a-chair-here. But don't feel you need to read or catch up - just jump in.

I'm having a nice cup of earl grey but there is wine mulling as requested.

What can I get anyone?

Sliding in here to sit in the corner for some piece and quiet and a bit of sanity.

I'm supposed to be studying today but am finding the subject matter a bit demoralising and infuriating (women's history 1920s/30s).

I got to this bit:' Her hostility to men, which causes so many of these middle-aged or older women to become ardent feminists, proves how jealous she is of them, and in her behaviour we may often see a clear picture of her prototype, the malign witch of the middle ages' (MC 1932) and came on here to growl/mutter quietly in the corner about it.

Having coffee and cake IRL (!!) at a local place which I think is a fair model for the Jolly Greer. Mmm, latte.

I had a first last night! In the pub with some course mates arguing discussing with a girl that prostitution and stripping are not truly free choices and are never empowering - being supported by a bloke I previously thought was a cave man! Result. Girl didn't change her mind course.

People who don't want their minds chaining, won't ime
I had an interesting conversation with DS1(10) in the car last night after I picked him up from his friend's house where he had been guising. It was about god and faith and how cross he was that his little brother's teacher was telling the 1st graders about god 'as if he was real'. It'd be fair to say that DS1 is a budding atheist, but what bugged him was NOT that they were taught about god and christianity but that it was presented as fact and not a belief.
Nought to do with feminism but it made me proud that he was developing some critical thinking skills.
At least they are also being told the facts of life and no nonsense about cabbage patches.

Bare midriffs causing a 'reputation' is all about context again, isn't it: I can remember a time not that long ago (?1990s) when a cropped top and low slung combats would've been simply fashionable, not necessarily 'slutty' (hate that word).

msrisotto, support from unexpected sources!

I'll have some tea, please, not too strong, lots of milk, thank you muchly.

How to tell if you're a feminist. Is that accurate or is there more to it? 'Cos if it is right, then it turns out I was wrong and I am a feminist.

Thanks for linking, joyful. I thought it was really good, didn't you? I mean, I do think I would not put the blame on feminists for the message, but I understand what she is saying and I thought it was really eloquently put.

I like that chart DoctorTwo. However, I know some people who do believe that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities, but they think they already do now... So for example, only 4% maths professors in the UK are women. That's probably because women don't want to be maths professor ... It makes me want to cry.

LRD I think I'd probably not put the blame on feminists for not sending the message across nicely either ...

But I can understand her saying it that way, upto, don't you think?

I think it is a very natural way to respond.

And to be fair, she has been in a competition that really gave women a lot of flack for not being sufficiently supportive of each other (which was both ridiculous and unpleasant), so she may well be feeling she needs to say this just in order for people not to stop reading what she's saying.

Just bobbing in to.say ...

YOU MUST WATCH THIS

It is Finn MacKay giving her speech at the feminism in London conference.

www.feminisminlondon.co.uk/

You may need flash player.

I was there. The atmosphere was amazing.

Well you don't have to watch it, but I would recommend it

Thanks LordCopper, It's a nice, simple graphic that even I can follow. I know there are equality laws but they seem to be unenforced, which is a pity really. I do think it's a shame that there are those who deny that feminism is necessary, they should realise that when we are more equal everybody is better off.

mrsrisotto I'd be interested in some of the content of your pub/ stripper argument if you cba.

Large one please barkeep (of anything over 12%) it's been a trying day

thewanderinguterus how fucking depressing.

Can I ask a question about intersectionality to any black mumsnetters who might see this?

Ok I have on a couple occasions seen black men refer to rape of black women as "us" I live in the states and it's been in documentaries etc about current and historical situations usually. .. I can give 2 examples off the top of my head.

A while back they were discussing a black neighborhood where a couple young black men were mis identified in a very real rape that happened to a white women in another area. A black political spokesman for the area basically said when rapes happen to "us" the police don't care but they barge in when it happens to one of them..

What threw me at that time was he was a man from that area.. So he was in the class who were raping the women in his area, iyswim (as in men as a class, obviously not him in particular).. And it felt wrong for him to sort of appropriate rape of women for his cause if that makes sense? He was obviously right to question the police's inaction on the crimes against the women in his are..it was just the way he kept sayin "us" that rankled.

Just recently I watched a documentary about slavery in the states... And the stories of the abuse of black women are obviously horrific.. but again another black man was talking about the abuse and the rape that "we" experienced in reference to female rape not males being raped.

It just seems kind of wrong? Like if I as a white woman referred to the slavery years as "when we were sexually abused by white men"

It's not something as a white woman I would have suffered.. (obviously white woman would have suffered rape the way black men would have suffered other horrors.. but this particular injustice didn't) It only happened to black women.

So would that bother you? or is this intersectionality and a good thing?

apologies in advance for anyplace where I seem a bit thick or ramble

Um didn't mean to kill thread

talk around me people, might have been a bit long winded for the pub. I'll have a gin and tonic.

Hey Partridge. I don't know enough about intersectionality. Thought I did (at the feminism in London event on Saturday) see a talk by a bisexual, disabled feminist.

I think that it might be my next area for reading (especially if anyone has any recommendations)

APartridge - I'm sure you haven't killed the thread! Well, I'm proving you haven't I guess.

I can understand the idea of solidarity such that anyone in a group becomes 'us'. But I did read recently a statement by black women stressing how black men do have male privilege and don't always recognize.

I just feel, being white, I don't know how to comment. Which is a bit useless.

Keep hoping a friend who is a black feminist comes on, have pmed her. I know she has talked about how black women and men do share the fight against racism in common, but black men are just as sexist as white men and just as unwilling to acknowledge how they oppress black women.

Also often abuse of black men is highlighted, and not the abuse of black women. Did you know for example that black women were lynched as well as black men?

I believe possibly more often.

I read a really disturbing autobiography by a woman who traced her ancestry back - she knew she had black and white ancestors and that her female relatives would have been raped by their white owners. It was horrifying to read. But after I read it, I was talking to someone who knows about this stuff, and she said apparently after slavery became illegal, there were men who killed their female slaves when they didn't want to be with them. As if that's a surprise! It's awful.