Burlesque dancing...?

[whatdoesittake48]

In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that I have signed up to do one of these courses. But I am already torn about what this means as a feminist.

I like the idea of doing something out of my comfort zone and having fun while doing it. But I am anti-porn, see striptease as demeaning for women and do not think that women should be expected to perform for men....

Unless it is their husband/partner and they absolutely are keen themselves.

My husband is very keen for me to give this a go - but in no way did he push the idea. I searched it out. What does this say about my principles and am I over thinking this.

I hate all this empowerment bullshit - stripping for men is not about empowerment. But is it different when it is for the man you love. Isn't that just carrying on the image that men love to see women doing this kind of thing. Do the men think their wives look powerful and sexy or do they think she is doing something for me because I am the "special" one and more important.

Aaargh! I really want to do this because I think it will be a great female bonding thing - but not sure if I want to bring it home to my husband. I will feel deeply uncomfortable with the idea of putting on a show...

Thanks!

Apologies for cocking this up!

So does burlesque always involve stripping?

Not always 2tired4internets but mostly - no more than you would see on a beach though!

Actually, is it ok that I posted those llinks here? Should I ask for them to be removed?

No it's good that you linked to some videos, it shows us what Burlesque normally looks like.

Just watched the Red Sarah video. Hardly hilarious. A woman posing as a "prude" and then stripping to loud music!! It is a very old trope in strip shows.

Yes burlesque does also involve total stripping, as well as partial stripping.

SGB - Going somewhere like Michigan Women's Festival and being naked amongst women of different ages, sizes, having had masectomies, etc - that is a way to feel comfortable in your own skin.

That made me uncomfortable too Grennie. I kept thinking - would the performer be "allowed" to do a skit wearing the dress the whole time and walk out clothed? Or would that lead to disappointment and anger from the audience?

"would the performer be "allowed" to do a skit wearing the dress the whole time and walk out clothed? Or would that lead to disappointment and anger from the audience?"

Yes, and a few do. And the audience cheer just as much.

Those links were posted of proper burlesque. I am not impressed. The idea of a woman dressing up as a sexually repressed character and then stripping, simply ties into mainstream ideas about women and sex.

Isn't it less to do with the nakedness and more to do with the intention. You can be naked or near enough and be ignored in a sexual sense.but add a little dance in and it becomes something much more. The intention has to come from the performer and the watcher for the meaning behind it to become clear.

Whoever mentioned the parish mag article.....I don't think they would accept it.much to risque.

Watched the links - so it's stripping whilst wearing funny costumes?? Where does the dance bit come in?

I guess we all look at things differently. I see where you are coming from grennie - hadnt really thought of it that way.

I watched the links and wasn't impressed. None of them could dance, if their clothes weren't coming off, I can't imagine anyone would watch this.

SGB these sound like quite sad reasons to strip - seeking approval from others by making your body publicly available. The empowerment seems to come from being judged to be acceptable by patriarchal standards by which I mean both the standards of acceptable beauty and the concept of a woman's body as public property to be judged by others. What power is obtained by doing this?

Different performers do different acts, and they tend to specialise.

So you'll get some who mostly do comedy routines. Some who mostly do stripping. Some who mostly do dance - ballet is particularly popular. Some who mostly do circus type stuff.

Some will of course combine different areas.

You also tend to get different acts depending on where they are from. Generally UK acts lean towards comedy, US acts are more raunchy, French acts tend to be more dance focussed, etc.

I'm not trying to get anyone to like Burlesque btw. I'm not daft enough to even try. And I can see why you don't like it.

It's not Feminist in general, though some specific acts are and it has the potential to be more Feminist/political.

I'm just posting to explain why some of us like it, and to correct some of the misconceptions.

Will say that since it got so much press attention it has watered down the cleverer side of it, and you see much more simple stripping than you used to.

Oh btw, SoWhat, only just remembered this, but you wrote, "So burlesque performers aren't thinking about sex. Sounds like women mentally writing their shopping lists while having half hearted having sex with their partners"

This may interest you to know that one of the original strippers back in the 40s I believe, Gypsy Rose Lee, had an act that involved stripping while talking to the audience about how while she was on stage all she was thinking about was stuff like buying groceries.

Same performer also had an act where she didn't strip, or the most she took off was a singular glove.

So while she was a part of an industry that at the time was all about titillation, she was also making digs at it.

murderofbanshees has expressed herself far better than I. I regret posting those links as I feel it is unfair for me to have posted those for discussion without the performers knowledge or consent. I have reported my posts in the hope of having them deleted. I do see the arguments here but for me it is purely entertainment and I see nothing seedy or smutty about it.

Cybercat, don't feel bad about posting the links. I guess there can be an abyss between two people's perception of the same thing. I watched the Red Sarah act and my impressions were completely different from the others here. I did not see a woman representing a sexually repressed individual. On the contrary, to me she was making fun of a bloke who was totally full of himself, with a massive inflated ego and unshakable belief in his own sex-godliness. And the silly (and I believe it was deliberately silly) fire tits thing in the end was the inflated male ego going tits up, literally and figuratively.

Flora: you seem to e saying that no one should want to be found sexually desirable by other people (unless it's in the context of a Proper Loving Relationship). One of the things about burlesque is that it's supposed to be as much fun for the performer as it is for the audience.

I think some of you are perhaps arguing from a separatist standpoint ie that to want to appeal sexually to men at all is antifeminist.

SGB I'm not saying that at all. There's a massive space between stripping off in front of random strangers to seek their approval of your body and only wanting to be found desirable in the context of a Proper Loving Relationship. It's also a huge leap, and hugely dismissive, to say this is a separatist standpoint.

You said stripping can be empowering for the performer. I don't see what the power is.

AutumnMadness , I think both me and Grennie meant the 'Victoria's Secret' video.

I do it, I love it.
I don't strip, and the routines I've done so far are more cutesy-pin-uppy than anything else.
That doesn't mean I won't strip or do sexier stuff in the future, I might, if I fancy it.
At no point have I ever felt that I was anything less than 100% comfortable (not physically, but I'm getting bendier!).