Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

[YouMakeMeWannaLaLa]

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so

C'mon now, who's been tampering with the Kool Aid?

Posting all in bold doesn't make the words any more worthy of respect nor attention.

I think prostitution is abuse. I don't know anyone here. But I do know lots of women who have been in prostitution, and so have some ideas of the realities.

Is calling someone a radical feminist really an insult??

And if prostitution was really a job like working at McDonalds, why are there not more men having sex with other men for money? There is a demand from gay men after all.

Unfortunately there are also lots of young boys/men who are abused by the men who pay for sex.
I was lucky enough to see a powerful speech given by Sheila Taylor MBE at my DD's graduation ceremony in January, she was Director of the National Working Group for Sexually Exploited Children and Young People, I would love her to dispel a few of the happy hooker myths for the idiots who come here with their pathetic arguments.
If all prostitution was a free choice, made by emotionally stable adults without abusive childhoods and with no addictions/MH problems , most people would not have such a problem with it, but as 95%+ of prostitution isn't in that category then we are failing society by not doing more to protect the vulnerable who make that "choice" ( which is really not free choice at all).

Oh god what a sad programme. We just sat in silence after it. It's hard to know where to start, in terms of protecting young women from this shit. The thing is, the illegal nature of their citizenship meant that they wouldn't have thanked anybody for rescuing them.

What actually happens to illegals if the authorities get wind of their presence?

I've long been a fan of Nick Broomfields work, but not so much now. The guardian writer summed it up for me. He was on as much of an ego fuelled wankfest as any of the punters were, and I found it really distasteful and upsetting.

If you are illegal, you will be deported. This has led to women for example being trafficked for prostitution, returned to their home country, and retrafficked by their pimps.

Why should I not get angry at your approach (though I believe I have called NO one nasty names on this thread).

The vast majority (99.9%) of those I have met in over twenty years have been those you categorise as 'happy hookers'.....and everyone of them would condemn the exploitation that exists in some areas.

Come up with all the argument and thesis that you care to, but prostitution will always exist in one form or another. Fighting against it WILL NOT HELP those in the worst position.

Has anyone thought of what it feels like to have one's existence denied?

Nobody has called anybody any nasty names on this thread, actually.

I see your argument. But other people have different experiences. And everyone condemns the bad side of things.

I argue that fighting against prostitution prevents the greatest harm. it won't prevent all of it but it has been shown to minimise the harm experienced by many many many of those involved. Where it has been legalised it encourages a flourishing parallel illegal trade. No harm reduction. what do you suggest?

You're happy, which is great, but it's not all about you.

Yes, murder has always existed too, shall we stop fighting against that too?

I think "having your existence denied" is small beer compared to the actual harms that are being done to women in the sex industry.

Research after research, shows that most women in prostitution want out.

minnehaha If, as you contend, The vast majority (99.9%) of those I have met in over twenty years have been those you categorise as 'happy hookers'.....and everyone of them would condemn the exploitation that exists in some areas. then surely those 99.9% would actively encourage the policing of those who are exploited within your industry. Criminalising prostitutes themselves does nothing to stop the problems, or help those who are exploited, especially women who are in the UK illegally, such as the women in the programme this thread is about. The women in this programme, as the law presently stands would have a doubly hard time extricating themselves from their predicament. If we changed our legal understanding of prostitution to a more Nordic model, whereby punters rather than prostitutes are criminalised, it's a win-win.

'Happy hookers' such as yourself and your acquaintances would no longer have to worry about being arrested and could ply your trade without a care in the world. The majority of women which research shows want out or prostitution would be able to move on without criminal records. Punters who hurt, abuse refuse to pay or whatever would be the ones who ended up being prosecuted.

I am not trying to tell you that you don't exist. I don't doubt that women you have met have told you how very jolly happy they are, abused women often do that, it's a form of self-preservation.

Has anyone thought of what it feels like to have one's existence denied?

Yes, I have. Almost everyday. Women who have been raped and unable for whatever reason to report it, women who have to pretend that all is well when they are being abused by their partner, women who were abused as children will all be able to tell you how it feels to have one's existence denied, there's really nothing special about it.

Prostitutes are not currently "criminalised", because working as a prostitute is not illegal. Prostitutes are currently "criminalised" if they choose to work together, for safety reasons, as each (and sometimes both) can be accused of pimping the other.

@CaptChaos - Neither myself or my friends worry about being arrested as we know we are doing nothing illegal. I have in fact spoken to the police on a couple of ocassions and recieved advice from them.
Criminalising the men would lead to greater risk for us, take my word for it.

All bilateral decriminalisation (prostitutes and punters) would mean is that the industry would magically regulate itself.

Essentially the industry would be operating behind closed doors with zero regulation, with all the current imbalances of power left intact. How easy would it be for those being exploited or abused to speak out? Not very.

Bilateral decrim, imo, is the epitome of the economically most privileged in an industry setting the terms to suit their own interests.

Whenthered : I hope for your sake that it is a slip when you say “The buyers are already criminalised in prostitution”-this is not so in the UK. Apart from laws on kerb crawling and hiring someone who has been trafficked the buyers are not criminalised. If they were then you would have the Nordic model which you all seem so keen on.

Although prostitution is legal in the UK almost anything surrounding it is illegal-for instance running a brothel, soliciting living off immoral earnings-which makes it hard for prostitutes to operate legally (so for instance a brothel may where two people working together from the same premises-which would improve their safety--they don’t even have to be there at the same time).

GOSH and When: Decriminalization would help in cases of abusive brothel owners such as Mary. Decriminalization does not mean the total absence of law-so for instance in New Zealand the 2003 act has as its stated aims:

1)Safeguarding the human rights of sex workers.
2) Protecting sex workers from exploitation.
3) Promoting the welfare and occupational safety and health of sex workers.
4) Creating an environment conducive to public health.
5) Protecting children from exploitation in relation to prostitution.

To achieve this the major aspects of the act were

1. Prohibitions on use in prostitution of persons under 18 years of age:It is an offence to arrange for or to receive commercial sexual services from a person under 18. Likewise, it is an offence to receive payment for the commercial sexual services of a person under 18. Every person convicted of an offence is liable to a maximum penalty of seven years' imprisonment. It is not an offence for a person under 18 to provide commercial sexual services as they are considered to be a victim (sections 8 to 9 and 20 to 23)

2. Health and safety requirements: Operators of prostitution businesses must adopt and promote safer sex practices. Every person convicted of an offence is liable to a fine not exceeding $10,000. Sex workers and clients must also adopt safer sex practices or be liable to receive a fine not exceeding $2,000. The Act provides powers of entry to premises for the purpose of inspection for compliance with health and safety requirements (sections 24 to 29).

3. Brothel operator certification system: Every operator of a prostitution business must hold a valid operator's certificate. To be eligible for a certificate, applicants must be over the age of 18, be a citizen or permanent resident of New Zealand or Australia, and not have any disqualifying convictions. Every operator who does not hold a certificate is liable to a fine not exceeding $10,000 (sections 34 to 41).

4. Small owner-operated brothels (SOOBs):These brothels have no more than four sex workers, and each individual sex worker retains control over their earnings. SOOBs are deemed not to have operators and therefore a brothel operator's certificate is not required (section

5. .Territorial authorities (equivalent of councils in UK):These authorities can make bylaws regulating the location of brothels, and the signage and advertising associated with commercial sexual services (sections 12 to 14).

Of course the 2003 act contained many more provisions.

A convenient summary of the workings of the act was published in July 2012 as a Parliamentary Library research paper (www.parliament.nz/en-nz/parl-support/research-papers/00PLSocRP12051/prostitution-law-reform-in-new-zealand) part of the conclusion reads “……. though key evidence indicates that the decriminalisationof prostitution has impacted favourably on various aspects of sex work for many. “

A fuller summary of the workings of the act is was made by a committee set up explicitly to look at the workings of the act (and included a nun an ex-police officer as well as sexworkers) ( 2008 Report of the Prostitution law review committee on the operation of the Prostitution reform act of 2003 www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/plrc-report/report-of-the-prostitution-law-review-committee-on-the-operation-of-the-prostitution-reform-act-2003)

This is a long report but concludes overall that decriminalization has been beneficial.

Oh and CaptChaos you say "The majority of women which research shows want out or prostitution "-nope-not so. you are no doubt referring to Melissa Farley's research on (mainly) street prostitutes where she claims that over 90% want to leave (sometimes prohibitionists add immediately). since Farley refuses to release her questionnaire (against all the norms of academic practice) it was not possible to know how that question was put. However we do have her questionnaire from NZ and the question was put neutrally.

However research from reportable academics (unlike Farley whose starting point is that prostitution is violence against women, abusive yada yada) show that although street prostitutes did express a higher wish to eventually leave prostitution this was not the case for indoor workers who are in fact the majority of prostitutes. The research data paints a picture much closer to that on Minnehaha-you may not like it ladies but there are prostitutes who either enjoy their work or find it no more troubling than other sort of work they have done.

Oh Blimey.

Yes wino because you're a pro-punter copy and paster, the women who enjoy their work should be the only voices heard. Of course. I shall shut up now.

CaptChaos
No I don't expect you will shut up-you will continue to produce the uninformed drivel we have come to expect. Try engaging with the facts please

There is plenty of other research showing that the majority of women in prostitution want out. The only one that paints a positive picture, asked women in front of pimps if they wanted to leave prostitution - hardly the way to get a neutral answer.

Total decriminalisation has been a disaster. For example in Amsterdam where trafficking, violence, children being prostituted, all increased.