Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

[YouMakeMeWannaLaLa]

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so

No-one is suggesting doing away with the street solicitation laws.

I'd like to see the end of the street scene altogether, it's the least-safe way to work. But I don't agree with the Nordic model.

Grennie
You are totally wrong about the majority wanting out-I could cite a great many papers that show that. But to give but one example look at the NZ report I cited above (Report of the Prostitution law review committee on the operation of the Prostitution reform act of 2003 ) look at section 5.4 (p 70) " Not all sex workers want to leave the sex industry......while there is a common perception that sex workers are in the industry through desperation or lack of choice most are not and some may be offended by being offered assistance to leave."

Would you do sex work wino ?

Also, despite it's title, the IUSW accepts pimps and brothel keepers as members.

Point 7 is especially disturbing, but one I've heard before. To me it rather baldly states that, unlike all other women on the planet, prostitutes are magic and can automatically sense an abusive man. This is ludicrous enough, but even more appalling is when it's used to belittle exited women "who obviously weren't professional enough to detect dodgy punters".

Also, you could have 99% of punters being "non-abusive", 1% can do more then enough damage. Or are we saying there's an acceptable level of abuse?

All this prevaricating, just so men can have an orgasm. Is it really worth it. As for the "right" to sell sex for money, there are plenty of other jobs and industries that have died out for various reasons as society has advanced, what makes prostitution so special that it needs to be preserved?

There can be better methods of keeping women in the sex industry safe, without going for full decriminalisation. The Merseyside Model has proven very effective: www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/22/merseyside-police-sex-workers-protect

90% would leave prostitution if they could (Farley et al, 1998).

74% of women cite poverty as the primary motivator for entering prostitution (Melrose 2002).

Up to 95% of women in prostitution are problematic drug users, including around 78% heroin users and rising numbers of crack cocaine addicts (Home Office 2004a).

68% of women in prostitution meet the criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in the same range as torture victims and combat veterans undergoing treatment (Ramsey et al 1993).

More than half of UK women in prostitution have been raped and/or seriously sexually assaulted. At least three quarters have been physically assaulted (Home Office 2004b).

The mortality rate for women in prostitution in London suffer is 12 times the national average (Home Office 2004a).

If any other job in countries like the UK, led to the above facts, there would be a total outcry. Because it is women in prostitution, and because a tiny number may choose and have a fairly positive experience, the vast majority get ignored.

People who talk about prostitution as being just another job, either don't know what they are talking about, or are lying. Read the stories of women who used to be in prostitution to get an idea of the reality for most women.

Grennie
Those so called "facts" (lifted from demand change and Object or the Eaves websites) are not facts at all but barefaced lies and distortions-but I am afraid typical of those put around by prohibitionists /abolitionists both in the UK and other countries.

A good dissection of much of these claims has been done by Prof Ronald Weitzer at George Washington University who is a professor of sociology. Website here (departments.columbian.gwu.edu/sociology/people/90) from his website some publications (normally behind subscription barriers) are available. I would recommend you (and others) read Weitzer R 2010 “The Mythology of Prostitution: Advocacy Research and Public Policy,” Sexuality Research and Social Policy, v.7: 15-29-which deals with many of these types of distortions and also Weitzer R 2009 "Sociology of Sex Work," Annual Review of Sociology, v. 35: 213-234.

While the above works deal with abolitionist claims in general those made by the Object etc websites (mostly about the situation in the UK) are easily disposed of. This was done at length by many respondents to Rhoda Grants consultation on the possible decriminalisation of the purchase of sex in Scotland-but now pulled from her website. If you really want-after reading the Weitzer material I can dispose of each of those claims with ease.

You want to dismiss research from such neutral bodies as the UK Home Office?

They way you tried to prove that prostitution in NZ is so hunky dory, despite their still being high high rates of rape?

I think you overestimate yourself.

You've also yet to answer why you are so keen to prove prostitution is so marvellous and if you would do prostitution yourself.

Thanks for that, WhenTheRed, I hadn't realised that was the IUSW position, though I can understand why it is.

Greenie
Here is a little exercise. Go to the website from which you downloaded all these "facts"-now follow up the citation trail. You will often find the references are missing-the reason being that the prohibitionist websites are cut and pastes of each other often forgetting to cut and paste the full references (so what is referred to by Home office 1994a or b?). If you can find the reference read it and try and find where in the work cited does the so called "fact" appear. You will more often than not find that the cited document does not say what is claimed. Believe me I have done this with these websites and followed through the citation trails-but not got the time today to pull it all apart-but I will. In the meantime read the Weitzer articles please.

"Thanks for that, WhenTheRed, I hadn't realised that was the IUSW position, though I can understand why it is."

Neither am I, seeing as the IUSW is heavily populated by pimps and punters and it's those voices that are heard.

Wino, just out of interest, do you think we'd all be better off if prostitution didn't exist or do you think it serves a useful function in society?

Gosh
Quick reply to one point "You've also yet to answer why you are so keen to prove prostitution is so marvellous and if you would do prostitution yourself"

Prostitution is not suited to everybody by any means. But for those who choose to do it, it should be decriminalised. and I say choose advisedly as in the vast majority of cases it is a choice-a constrained choice maybe but there is no evidence in the vast majority of cases (despite the bleatings of prohibitionist/abolitionists who witter on about pimps traffickers and the rest) for coercion of any kind

Did you watch the C4 program at all, inwino?

Yes I did see it-also read the reviews and a previous Guardian article (www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/15/brothel-regret-not-working-sex-trade where the journalist wrote about her experiences)

The brothel madame was a very nasty piece of work-unfortunately illegal immigrants (smuggled, visa over-stayers or working in contravention of their visa conditions) are easy prey for exploitative employers-and not just in the sex industry ( in fact the sex industry is only minor part of the exploitation-restaurants, agriculture and other sectors also exploit illegals). However-as operation Pentameter 1& 2 showed after raiding many brothels while there are illegals working in the sex trade they do not meet the criteria of trafficked-either knowing they were entering the sex trade before they arrived or-as one of the people in the TV piece (and the article) entering it freely after doing other menial jobs in the catering industry-and regretted not doing sex work earlier as (to her) the money was good.

The brothel shown was at the bottom end (you can tell from the prices which are almost half the "going rate" of those advertising on the internet in London) of what is a very diverse industry-some conditions are exploitative but a great many are not. (see for instance Scambler G 2007 Sex Work Stigma: Opportunist Migrants in London Sociology 41: 1079 DOI: 10.1177/0038038507082316)

wino do you get paid for what you do regarding prostitution?

wino, how do think legalising prostitution help the women in that film?

And do you think that illegal immigrants who work in restaurants and the like are at the risk of physical violence and rape that the prostitutes are?

'the bleatings' of those who 'witter on about pimps trafficking and the rest.'

Shocking dismissal of horrendous abuse.

I dunno, wino.
It seems to me you are more concerned with the poor old punter rather than the rights of the prostitute.
Can it be true?

Prostitution is not suited to everybody by any means.

Wino: what sort of people does prostitution suit do you think?

flora: No of course I don't get paid-why must there be an assumption that anyone who does not support the prohibitionist line must be paid by the pimp punter international conspiracy-or whatever. I am concerned with issues of evidence -showing that the prohibitionist line is built on a tissue of lies distortions and misuse of evidence.

Sabrina: Hard to know how the illegals would be helped. In Australia they can get special visas provided they give evidence against their exploiters-meanwhile they can continue to work -but are frequently deported afterwards. In NZ and some Australian states (where prostitution is decriminalized or legalized prostitutes have rights, for instance there has to be safe sex, they can refuse clients and they have rights against exploitative conditions of employment. but this applies to the legal sector-whereas illegal immigrants tend to work in the unregulated sector.

And yes illegals are subject to drowning etc (as were the cockle pikers of Morecombe bay) and unsafe working pracices.