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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

759 replies

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 23/09/2013 23:23

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so Sad

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Grennie · 03/10/2013 10:16

I am not saying this is applicable here. But I also wanted posters to know that the sex industry does pay people to spend time on the internet pushing a pro porn and pro prostitution line. Don't assume that everyone who talks about this is genuinely talking about their views.

BuffytheFeministFeminist · 03/10/2013 10:33

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ReviewsOffers · 03/10/2013 13:24

I would really love to be convinced that everything is all doodle dandy in the sex industry.
It would be a big weight off my mind.

But it hasn't happened yet.

Maybe they need to hire a better calibre of shill?

Or is it the evidence itself that just doesn't stack up?

FloraFox · 03/10/2013 16:19

"You think that a man can't have an opinion without it being motivated by self-interest? Tut tut."

Says the man who invokes Objectivism and Schopenhauerean (sic) pessimism.

FloraFox · 03/10/2013 16:31

"The only thing which makes such women clutch their pearls is their distaste at the thought of non-alpha males being allowed to have sex."

Okay, now I get it. A failed PUA with slightly better googling skills than the norm. He must seem like a genius in his crowd.

WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 16:44

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ReviewsOffers · 03/10/2013 16:59

Couldn't make it up

the sky's green and grass is blue

LurcioLovesFrankie · 03/10/2013 17:08

Whenthered - I think your summary gives a pretty good insight into the insecurities of the sort of bloke who comes trolling on here. What they don't realise of course, is that those insecurities are their problem (and sadly, the problem of the women they exploit as a result), not ours.

BelaLugosisShed · 03/10/2013 17:21

The realities of prostitution were brought home hard last night by my DD, one of the girls in her form has been taken into care because her drug addicted, prostitute mother has been hospitalised by a "client", this poor girl is 12 years old and has a nine year old brother Sad .

I'd vote for any party who would prosecute men who pay to rape for sex and put them on a publicly available register .

WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 18:04

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mathanxiety · 03/10/2013 19:02

Frodosmum In practice, men who committed marital rape could be, and were, prosecuted for other offences, such as sexual assault, although it must be said that, in the past, the police were notoriously reluctant to get involved in ‘domestics’ of any kind. That was a different nightmare.

The old chestnut 'in practice' -- lol again. I assume you are joking here too. Men who raped women were and still are as likely to be prosecuted for rape or for any offence as they are likely to be hit by lightning.

It is exactly the same nightmare, and again, exactly the same inability on your part to understand how refusal to take allegations of rape seriously means hardly any rapes are reported, marital or otherwise. I put this in the same category of 'failure to understand' as your inability to see how empathy is meaningless unless shared in some way, and your inability to see that all humans have needs, men and women alike. If anyone has a 'need' to sell their body for 20 quid a pop then let's all do it. Or is it just men who need to be able to buy women for whatever they can get away with spending?

"'Nobody was interested in my complaints, as I was legally a wife."
The quote I used there came from Noori Al Shami, whose experiences are detailed in the article linked below, but this is a statement that any married woman anywhere could find herself making even as late as the 1990s.

Knowledge of marital rape, and this applies to those opinion polls, reflects, in part, the fact that the issue just wouldn’t cross the mind of most people. I regard this as a healthy attribute. We might have stumbled through the centuries with no legislators bothering to take responsibility for this, but it would not even occur to the normal male to force himself physically upon his wife.

I assume you have proof of this benign treatment of women you speak so glibly of, through centuries when it was legal to beat one's wife with a stick as long as it was no wider than one's thumb?

I can't understand how ignorance of one's human rights could ever be anything but a recipe for disaster.

What you are arguing is that an issue that just wouldn't cross the minds of most people and hardly ever happens warranted legislation?
Or is it that legislation was warranted only because recent blinding realisation of the fact that women are humans and as such deserve legal rights, made it necessary to acknowledge that a woman didn't cease to be a human upon marriage?

I don't know if you are aware of the issue of female children being married off to rid their family of the burden of caring for them? Here is one example of too many.

mathanxiety · 03/10/2013 19:06

'I can't understand how ignorance of one's human rights could ever be anything but a recipe for disaster.'
And I also think you don't understand, despite your alleged feminist background, what the word 'wife' really meant.

BelaLugosisShed · 03/10/2013 20:00

Sorry, I should have been clearer, my daughter is an adult and a High school teacher - it's one of her students I was referring to. She was in tears last night telling me about it - she's been teaching for all of 4 weeks and already has a file of 20 children from abusive backgrounds Sad . This is in a "good" school too, not some inner city sinkhole.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 03/10/2013 20:25

I am ashamed to say that, when I was a lot younger, I did used to think there was not difference between working in a bakery and working in a brothel. Just money to use your body innit, whether that's baking bread or sucking cock?

NO.

I can't believe I was that naive (even though this was young teenage years) and I can't believe a grown, 'well-read' (PMSL) man would be so ridiculous.

Close physical contact with strangers you find repulsive...risk of STIs...rik of pregnancy...extremely high vulnerability to rape and abuse...no sick pay...no maternity pay...no pension...no health and safety...risk of being robbed/not-paid...verbal abuse...painful demands...having to move often...public shame/hate/abuse...punters with bad breath/sweaty pits/cheesy knobs/shitty arseholes...lasting psychological damage...need I go on.

Just try and put yourself in their place spring and add into it that it is rarely a free choice due to drugs, trafficking, desperation, coercion and it's extricable link to organised crime and drugs.

Even 'happy hookers', while they may be perfectly happy, help support the industry and fuel male entitlement to use and objectify women thereby damaging society as a whole.

The only people it benefits are horny men and as I said earlier "FFS, just have a wank".

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YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 03/10/2013 20:26

Bela That's so sad Sad Sorry for the families involved and your daughter; must be hard to see it so closely.

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WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 20:35

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YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 03/10/2013 20:44

Yes whentheRed so much racism and ageism as well in prostitution. If it was all legalised men wouldn't be able to specify 'young, chinese girl' like they did in the programme. This would not be popular. It would not be an equal opportunity job.

Health and Safety at work would be a challenge...risk assessment would prevent most things. And, as you say sexual harassment would need to be dropped. Sounds a great 'job', huh.

Will read the link.

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WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 20:50

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WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 21:22

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Grennie · 03/10/2013 21:57

This letter to the "good punter" from a woman who had been in prostitution, is also very powerful.

theprostitutionexperience.com/

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 03/10/2013 22:33

Upthread, spring said nonchalantly: "I'm off onto public transport now" or something.

Well, I'm guessing that as he popped onto 'public transport' he would guess he had a better than average chance of getting through the day without being abused, anally raped, beaten, ripped off or pushed drugs. Which is what your average prostitute doesn't have.

Plus, in his job, he probs has the usual benefits - sick pay, legal rights, health and safety etc. So being bored in an office, or in McDonalds, really isn't the same thing as depicted in that tv show.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 03/10/2013 22:47

Just read the above links Sad

How anyone can read them and still be pro-prostitution baffles me...yet, they will.

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AnyFucker · 03/10/2013 22:49

Because for some people, men's orgasms take precedence over everything.

GoshAnneGorilla · 03/10/2013 22:56

Where "sex for money is just work" argument falls down immediately is when we look at who is "selling".

For some reason, it seems to be people from poor or otherwise difficult backgrounds who are more likely to enter prostitution, if it was just "work" why is it "chosen" by people with such a paucity of options?

Menwithouthemingway · 04/10/2013 00:48

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