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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

759 replies

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 23/09/2013 23:23

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so Sad

OP posts:
Grennie · 03/10/2013 06:43

A gentleman!!!

Not the word I would use to describe a man who pays a woman so he can use her body.

And cutting supply i.e. prosecuting pimps, is evidence based as the most effective way to cut trafficking, prostitution, etc.

FloraFox · 03/10/2013 06:50

I meant "fuck" in the literal sense, not the metaphorical one. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 06:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 07:51

I am aware of the Nordic model and the political opinion which is its central tenet.

I am sure that the organised criminals in Scandinavia are gracefully accepting defeat: ‘We at the Swedish Mafia are good sports and know when we are beaten. We see the error of our ways and will certainly accept this with quiet good humour, without trying to get around the letter or spirit of the law in any way’.

Not the word I would use to describe a man who pays a woman so he can use her body.

I do not recall saying that I required the services of prostitutes.

And cutting supply i.e. prosecuting pimps, is evidence based as the most effective way to cut trafficking, prostitution, etc.

So why are they pursuing the punters? Is it because it’s similar to the drug trade? - i.e., they succeed in getting only a few of the small and medium-sized fish, while the more important bosses remain untouched, essentially scratching the surface of the problem?

Springrite · 03/10/2013 07:59

That makes a change from the usual accusations that women opposed to prostitution are opposed because they have delicate sensibilities and are clutching their pearls.

The only thing which makes such women clutch their pearls is their distaste at the thought of non-alpha males being allowed to have sex.

The Nordic model is effectively the model created by Sweden, a country which was still sterilising disabled people until 1976.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:08

You think that a man can't have an opinion without it being motivated by self-interest? Tut tut.

Beachcomber · 03/10/2013 08:13

It isn't a 'new' radical feminist position to analyse paid for sex as abuse. It is an idea that has been part of radical feminism since the 1960s and which is the culmination of observations made by radicals over centuries. It is just relatively new that this analysis has been enshrined in law.

And the analysis is rather more complex that our gentlemen poster presents.

The radical feminist analysis (which is increasingly being adopted by countries which seek gender equality and which have good parliamentary representation of women), identifies the institution of prostitution as a barrier to gender equality and as violence against women. This analysis treats prostitution as a human rights issue and women as human. (Women as human! Radical or what?!)

If a gentlemen cannot tell the difference between systematic gendered exploitation, gendered violence, the trafficking of human beings; and, being a miner or working in an office, might I suggest that he does some 'work experience' and sells his own arse to all comers in order to locate some humanity on the issue (whilst remaining thankful that at least as a man he does not risk pregnancy and retains the protection of his male privilege).

www.sccjr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Briefing-Law-and-policies-on-prostitution-and-THB-Sweden-1203082.pdf

Swedish prostitution policies are particularly innovative. They rest firmly on human rights principles such as:

Prostitution is a serious barrier to gender equality.

Prostitution is a serious problem that is harmful to the prostituted woman or child but also to society at large.

Prostitution is male violence against women, especially targeting those who are economically, racially or ethnically marginalized/oppressed.

Prostitution is incompatible with internationally accepted principles
of human rights: the dignity and worth of the human person and the equal rights of men and women.

Prostitution is a gender specific crime;the majority of victims are women and girls, although a number of young men and boys also fall victims.

Women in prostitution are not to be criminalized or subjected to administrative punishments, and have a right to live lives without being subjected to violence through the harm of prostitution.

To end prostitution, the political, social, legal and economic conditions
under which women and girls live must be ameliorated by introducing measures such as poverty reduction, sustainable development, measures that promote gender equality and counteract male violence against women and girls, as well as social programs focusing specifically on women and girls.

Eliminating the demand as the root cause of prostitution is a cornerstone of Swedish policies. Males must take responsibility for their own and other’s oppressive sexual behaviour and change it.

Prostitution and trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes are seen as issues that cannot, and should not be separated; both are harmful practices and intrinsically linked.

All forms of legal or policy measures that legalize different prostitution activities, such as brothels, or that decriminalize the perpetrators of the prostitution industry, including pimps, traffickers, brothel owners, and buyers, are threats to gender equality and the rights of women and girls to live lives free of male violence.

WhentheRed · 03/10/2013 08:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beachcomber · 03/10/2013 08:18

The entitlement in your posts is palpable Springrite.

The Nordic model wasn't created by Sweden. It was created by radical feminists Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:22

Circular reason and opinion.

With regard to the practical economic matter described in '...must be ameliorated by introducing measures such as poverty reduction...' I fear that that boat has sailed. The free market will have them.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:25

The The eugenics in your posts is, or are, palpable, Beachcomer.

Beachcomber · 03/10/2013 08:29

Oooh, subtle as a brick.

I call Godwin!

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:29

It was created by radical feminists Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin.

Indeed, but despite appearances, neither is/was a state. I was thinking in terms of nation states.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:31

No way: Sweden was actually guilty. It was not a comparison.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:33

I call Dawkins.

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:35

With regard to the previous message, I meant that Sweden actually did it and that there was no need to invoke Godders.

Grennie · 03/10/2013 08:36

And what do you think should happen Spring?

Beachcomber · 03/10/2013 08:39

What said the 'eugenics' is my posts was palpable?

Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:44

This reply has been deleted

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Springrite · 03/10/2013 08:48

Sorry, crossed messages.

And what do you think should happen Spring?

I am a Schopenhauerean pessimist. You do not want to know.

I have to leave now to embark upon something called ‘public transport’. The only remark I wish to make for the moment is that Beachcomber is utterly 180-degrees wrong about the male ‘entitlement’ of which she speaks. That statement, like the Gulf of Tonkin, will come back to haunt her.

BuffytheFeministFeminist · 03/10/2013 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beachcomber · 03/10/2013 09:52

Yes, it's all very pompous a bit too hard for me to get my ladybrain around and all goes over my ladyhead.

Anyhoo for anyone interested in a little plain speaking on the subject of prostitution, I can highly recommend this from Catharine MacKinnon which she gives as a

ReviewsOffers · 03/10/2013 10:07

Do the pro prostitution people deny that there are people who are not in it through choice?

If not, do they care about these people?

Grennie · 03/10/2013 10:08

If you want to hear from real women who have been prostituted, you can hear some of their stories here.

www.equalitynow.org/survivorstories

I have known many women who have been prostituted. I would rather listen to them than the views of some "gentlemen" who don't care about the women in prostitution at all.

BuffytheFeministFeminist · 03/10/2013 10:10

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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