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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Dustin Hoffman on being beautiful enough

82 replies
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LieweHeksie · 09/07/2013 15:32

interesting. thanks.

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FloraFox · 09/07/2013 18:34

I found this quite moving. He said he realised he would not speak to a woman that looks like him at a party. I don't expect he would date anyone less attractive but I wonder if it has changed his attitude to the women he meets socially and proffesionally.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 20:05

I definitely got that impression flora (that he learned his lesson), but it's scary to me to think that it took that for him to see! I can't think feminism has time to go around dressing every man in a dress and wig

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namechangeguy · 09/07/2013 21:29

Isn't Tootsie the film in which Jessica Lange's character says that she wishes a man would be more honest with her? She confides in Tootsie that sometimes she just wants a man to approach her, cut through the bs and just say he wants to have sex with her, if that is what he is thinking. So, once out of drag, Hoffman's character meets her at a party, and tells her straight up that he'd like to take her to bed. Jessica Lange, of course, gives him a good hard slap across the chops Grin. I loved that scene.

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HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 09/07/2013 21:45

So interesting. Thanks.

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ToffeePenny · 09/07/2013 21:49

thank you, that was a good thing to see

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DifferentNow · 09/07/2013 21:56

I found his perspective very interesting too.

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beeny · 09/07/2013 21:57

Thanks

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namechangeguy · 09/07/2013 22:08

'I definitely got that impression flora (that he learned his lesson), but it's scary to me to think that it took that for him to see! I can't think feminism has time to go around dressing every man in a dress and wig'

What lesson? That men do not flirt with less-than-physically perfect women (patently not true, unless all the women in here with male partners are supermodels)? Or that millionaire film stars do not flirt with less-than-physically-perfect women (true in a lot of cases I would imagine, but I have no proof)?

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RippingYarns · 09/07/2013 22:19

i was with him right up until he said he had been brainwashed

he took no responsibility for his feelings, it was all someone elses fault Hmm

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RippingYarns · 09/07/2013 22:21

previous actions, not feelings

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SizeofaCow · 09/07/2013 22:21

At the beginning DH talks about how life would have been different if he had been born a woman.

DH is a successful man, renowned and admired.

I think he was expressing how he would have been less successful as a woman because he lacked beauty. That was the lesson he learned IMO.

I thought it was moving.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:24

ripping, I think brain washed is a very apt way of referring to what patriarch does to us.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:25

soac I was very confused by you sharing your dear husbands thoughts on the matter Blush

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namechangeguy · 09/07/2013 22:25

Size, I thought it was more of a realisation of the women he had met and overlooked purely because they weren't 'traditionally beautiful'. This seemed to be the gist of what he said to his wife.

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RippingYarns · 09/07/2013 22:30

i agree MyHumps, it is certainly about brainwashing and conditioning, but for me, he used that as a get out

i've watched the video a few times and am also guilty of at first dismissing it as another piece of acting - i'm such a cynic these days Blush

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Zynnia · 09/07/2013 22:33

I had heard this years ago. It must be an insight for men alright because they're not dismissed or overlooked for being unattractive.

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Blistory · 09/07/2013 22:35

I though it quite poignant - his realisation that women only had value to him if they were beautiful and it appears to have been quite a humbling lesson for him that he would never have been a beautiful woman and would therefore have been invisible to men like himself.

As for being brainwashed, isn't he really just referring to social conditioning ? Fair play to him, it would have been easier not to consider why he had the discomfort he did and just dismiss the whole experience.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:35

I don't think he was referring to women he would date ncg but frankly women he could be bothered to talk to. he was married and talking to his wife at this point. women in society are judged by their fuckability. that it all came about from his wondering what it would be like to be born a woman... his looks as a man and as a huge Hollywood actor could not have gone unconsidered.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:36

he is quite good I'm sure he could pull it off Grin

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SizeofaCow · 09/07/2013 22:41

MyHumps Hahaaaaa. DP is currently watching the telly in his pants. I don't think he'd know where to start with Hoffman.

NCG, it was "I think I'm an interesting woman" that led me to feel it was an admission of how he thinks he would have been viewed as the opposite sex. That, and the fact that he expected to be beautiful! I took it as him saying that for a woman to be successful she has to be beautiful. He expected to be beautiful because he is successful.

Not saying I'm right. It's just how it came across to me.

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kim147 · 09/07/2013 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 09/07/2013 22:47

Kim, certainly not when it comes to general conversation. I often see men on TV who have something interesting to say while looking quite a lot less than Brad Pitt

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NeoMaxiZoomDweebie · 09/07/2013 22:51

I wonder....if when he asked to be made more beautiful, he thought that it is a matter of choice? That women can by dint of regular grooming and the correct makeup, all look gorgeous!?

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Zynnia · 09/07/2013 23:11

yeh, I think he thought that briefly to begin with. "First make me a woman, tick, now, make me beautiful!"

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