Dustin Hoffman on being beautiful enough

[MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps]

www.upworthy.com/dustin-hoffman-breaks-down-crying-explaining-something-that-every-woman-sadly-already-experienced-3?c=gt1

namechangeguy What lesson? That men do not flirt with less-than-physically perfect women (patently not true, unless all the women in here with male partners are supermodels)? Or that millionaire film stars do not flirt with less-than-physically-perfect women (true in a lot of cases I would imagine, but I have no proof)?

Not dating or flirting, other social and professional interactions.

size I took it the same way as you.

I took it as "I am an interesting woman with a lot to offer the world e.g. opinions, kindness, intelligence, etc, but I will be overlooked by the vast majority of men because I'm not good looking enough to capture or hold their attention. It's only my looks and nothing else that count."

NeoMaxi & Zynnia I wondered that too!

This is an interesting critique of the video. I have to admit I am not overly impressed with a man noticing sexism when women have been pointing it out for centuries and largely getting ignored.

I see your point scallops, but lets be honest. I can shout from the rooftops about sexism but my vagina has a way of getting me ignored by the men folk. If they want to listen to Dustin Hoffman. Good.

It shouldn't take Patrick Stewart to make people realize dv is an actual issue that matters, but I regularly see his video being passed aroun.

i hear you scallops - now a successful man says women are getting a rough deal everyone sits up and notices?

i agreed it's an important video to watch, and it's great that it's out there, but really should we be holding it in such regard? it's still promoting the fact it's taken a man's voice to speak up...

I think it was moving. Thank you to those that have pointed out how he seemed to think that beauty was a choice, I hadn't noticed that. Re - how annoying it is that a man raises an issue and the world listens: I agree with that generally but I feel that is not so relevant in this case as the realisation of the message is uniquely tied to the fact that it was realised by a man from a woman's unique perspective and that this particular message is not something that men can usually experience, realise or relate to (because they are not women.)

I also think it is was moving because he realises that he has missed out on the companionship of women (rather than flirting/dating).

Re the scene where he boldly asks her to go to bed with him as that is what she has told her "female" friend she wants a man to do - but he is, of course, rejected. I like that scene because, as well as being very funny, it also shows that, fundamentally, he cannot really understand what it is to be a woman because he has not "lived" long enough as one. He missed the subltety and humour in what she was saying to her "female" friend and took it literally.

yes, it's as exactly the same for men Kim. that's why you so rarely see male musicians and comedians with high profile models. any why there are so many incredibly good looking male comedians and politicians and scientists on TV. men are so often judged on their looks and not what that have to say. it is ridiculous to assert that men are held to the same beauty standards as women because you didn't date much in high school. the point is most women will at least engage with a man who has something to say. we may not want to fuck that person but we're under no obligation to feel sexual attraction to all of them. he was simply stating he has ignored interesting women and not engaged. I dorubt think he was crying to his wife that he didn't fuck more ugly chicks.

I have mixed feeling about this:

On the one hand, DH has had his eyes opened and he has changed as a person and how he treats others. Warm fuzzies, claps, all very lovely. I hope it's widely circulated and watched by men and women everywhere and it has an impact.

On the other hand DH is clearly an intelligent person and quite nice chap. Yet it took him the extreme of getting the role, developing the physical character, acting in full drag etc etc to see what he was doing and how he was treating people. If it takes all that for DH to 'see the light' what chance does Joe Normal have? That part of it I felt was intensely depressing.

Kim - your qualifier, 'unless they have some kind of status' is very telling. Men can gain status in many ways, political, financial, intellectual, but women are judged on attractiveness first and foremost. If we are lacking in that respect, noone is interested.

Kim47 I think that's right. Women like a man who is confident and interesting, and if an ugly man is comfortable in his own skin and is good company he will have far, far less trouble engaging the opposite sex in conversation than an ugly woman would have.

You only have to look at the reality that men are generally proud to have a much, much younger girlfriend, whereas generally, women would feel a little judged, a little awkward. I think this proves that women want people to value the relationship, its veracity if you like, whereas men want people to look at them and think 'he's banging that'.

Obviously not all men not quite but it shows how the sexes think. Women on tv must be beautiful and slim and young. men on tv, well, look at John Sargeant. And I've nothing against him, but he makes the point.

I meant I don't think that's right. I meant that women do chat to unattractive men all the time if they are normal and friendly.

yes, Kim I think that. which is why I keep saying that I think that.

Kim - your qualifier, 'unless they have some kind of status' is very telling. Men can gain status in many ways, political, financial, intellectual, but women are judged on attractiveness first and foremost. If we are lacking in that respect, noone is interested.

YY to this.

There are many unattractive men with status but men are allowed to have status through brains, talent etc. Actually DH is not classically handsome - he's short as well. And he doesn't usually play alpha man roles - I'm sure he's aware he's not, say, Robert Redford.

But it has been fine for him - he has status because he is talented and famous and wealthy and powerful for many reasons. Ask Mary Beard if she has been accorded the status that's been accorded to an equivalent male academic...

I also think it's interesting that you keep talking about what 'attractive' women do, Kym. I happily speak to unattractive men but as I am myself not very attractive, does that not count? I think it speaks volumes that you are categorising the women involved on appearance even when claiming that men have sexism as bad as women.