we went to a gay pride carnival

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

100,000 people where no one was dressing for straight men.

most of the women had comfy clothes and the ones who were dressing in a "sexy" way had gone whole hog and were practically naked.... but not in the "im actually feeling quite uncomfortable and it's really apparent to anyone who looks at me" way you often see. Maybe it was the fact that they wernt being molested or catcalled as they walked.

and i realized while looking at the young men how rare it is for men to be undressed in our society. I probably saw more banana hammocks in any square ft there than i have ever seen in my 30 years of tv viewing.

Straight men want boobs and fussy hair and make up so they get it.

straight men do not want to see bananna hammocks so we just dont see them

Straight men go to pride too.

Yup that's about the size of it OP!

i know that, i was there with my (hopefully) straight husband.

But my point was that of 100,000 people the straight men there were not the target audience, not the "consumers". like in most of society.

and it was interesting to see how different things look when straight men arent the focus of everything.

ive been to pride events before but not since learning more about feminism and just saw it from a different perspective this time

Most straight men don't notice if you have make up on or fussy hair.

Men don't give a shit what women wear.

Other women do! Lets stop this sisterhood rubbish. It doesn't exist.

The boys at school don't tell the girls their skirts are too long, their trousers are too short or their waist bands are too high. 99% of boys and 90% of men would be go snaked if a girl/woman looked at them never mind spoke to them.

Lets stop blaming men for all the ills in the world. They are only responsible for 50%

Be gob smacked if a woman spoke to them.

Seriously, in a mixed school the boys may join in the teasing, but it's the girls who start the petty appearance based shit.

Of course straight men notice

I was treated the other day at work to two of my colleagues discussing at length the appearance of a more senior female, and how they couldn't understand how anyone would ever want to have sex with her.

Of course men notice what women look like - and judge and judge hard. Not all of them, obviously, but enough.

TBH most females find this out at about 13 when they first get something obscene shouted at them by some bloke in a van.

Arf at the idea that men don't police women's looks.

Of course they do.

They quite often shout insults in the streets at them when they see one who isn't measuring up to the beauty standards they feel are acceptable

And as an added super-bonus for all females, they also shout obscenities if the female does meet them. Hooray!!!

I don't think men notice the subtleties than other women do, but you are so right about the shouting at women - it's just vile.

I love Pride events, always such a great atmosphere

Where did you get that from Startail?

I grant you men probably don't know their this season's Prada stilettos from last years Primark stilettos, but they know the effect of a stiletto from the effect of flat boots.

Boys don't notice how girls dress and look? Honestly? I must have been dreaming all those hundreds of conversations at school where girls were teased for not wearing a bra yet, for wearing a bra, for not shaving their legs, for having a moustache, for having bushy eyebrows, for having baggy trousers.....

Men don't notice? To take one example, I heard a male ex-colleague once say that a particular woman wasn't professional because she never wore make up.

Yes, I agree that girls can sometimes be the harshest police of patriarchy's views on female appearance, but that's a related issue.

On a different note, I've found it interesting as a SAHM how often women dress and make-up/do hair rather differently for toddler groups than when you see them out and about with their families in town. (Not talking newborns when you're lucky you don't have sick down you, I realise) I wonder if the fact that it's a predominately female audience affects things.

I remember one memorable moment at work when I overheard two men discussing a woman, senior to both of them, who had a reputation for being very tough and the conversation was all about how her pubic hair must extend down to her knees, so un feminine and unattractive was she.

Hermione - I agree about subtleties. That's why so many many claim to prefer women without make up, not realising that the natual beauties that they are idolising have spent an hour on that oh-so-subtle make up. So it's an even higher standard - you must have an immuculate appearance, but heaven forbid if that takes time. Then you are vain..

Though to be fair all the men I know in my social circle are incredibly grateful for their wives/girlfriends and wouldn't ever be critical of their appearances, or care what they wear (that I've ever heard). I guess I have an intuitive selection process for weeding out the types of blokes who would shout abuse out of a car at a passing stranger about her appearance.

"Sort of works both ways - blokes who don't live up to "expectations" can expect to be ignored and judged by women as well."

Well it doesn't work both ways then does it?

Because shouting at someone in the street, isn't the same as ignoring them. Ignoring somebody you're not interested in, is a perfectly reasonable response. I ignore men I'm not interested in all the time, but I don't shout "oy, yer fat bastard, get down the gym!" at them. Neither do I shout "Hey sexy, fancy a fuck?" at the ones I do like the look of.

I think most women would be delighted if it did work both ways.

projecting much startail?

i remember reading a trashy womens mag and the woman had written in to find out ways to look low maintnence while away on holiday with hwr boyfriend as he preferred those kinds of women so she was informed ways to multitask her make up and use conditiiner for shaving gel

posted an article on here ages ago where a man advised women to never let their partners see them shave put on deo or make up. we should be naturally perfect

I don't think it does work both ways either.

Men might find that they attract less female interest based on appearance. But they can make up with it in many other ways that women rarely can - money, status, power. They buy things for men that aren't bought for women.

And men rarely get yelled at by random women in the street for not measuring up.

And men rarely find that their personal appearance impacts on their career prospects the way studies repeatedly show it does for women.

Just as a trivial example, think of how at least two of the male cast members of friends put on significant weight during the series. Would that have ever, ever been thinkable or tolerated by any of the female leads.

Yes, I love that about natural looking makeup! A splodge of bright blue on the eyelids and a slash of fuchsia on the lips is a piece of piss to naturally dewy & flawless

Ah, but Kim, how d'you know?

As far as I'm aware, no man of my acquaintance has ever shouted obscenities or insults at a random woman in the street.

But I'm conscious that they probably wouldn't tell me about it if they had.

I hope none of my male friends would ever have done that.

I'm not quite so convinced about some of my relatives though.

because they havent done it to you does not mean they don't do it.

i dont get the n word shiuted at me because im white. it doesnt mean ive never met a racist

Men notice, but in a very superficial I'd like to Fuck that kind of way and anyone dare tell me women don't do exactly the same things to blokes.

What I mean is it's far more peer pressure from other girls/women that effects what women wear, how much money they waste, how stressed they get.

A man might like your arse wiggling in high heels, but as you say he doesn't care what they cost.

Sadly woman on woman or girl on girl pressure over appearance starts in primary school. My 12 year old DD2 worries what she wears to see her girl friends. The only boy to chat her up as only ever seen her in uniform.

As I said above DD1 has had all kinds of bullying nastiness because she doesn't do fashion. All of it is started by girls.

As for cat calling. I wouldn't know, blokes have never done it to me.

According to a previous thread they don't see girls in glasses.