we went to a gay pride carnival

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

100,000 people where no one was dressing for straight men.

most of the women had comfy clothes and the ones who were dressing in a "sexy" way had gone whole hog and were practically naked.... but not in the "im actually feeling quite uncomfortable and it's really apparent to anyone who looks at me" way you often see. Maybe it was the fact that they wernt being molested or catcalled as they walked.

and i realized while looking at the young men how rare it is for men to be undressed in our society. I probably saw more banana hammocks in any square ft there than i have ever seen in my 30 years of tv viewing.

Straight men want boobs and fussy hair and make up so they get it.

straight men do not want to see bananna hammocks so we just dont see them

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

im fairly sure that the current mens fashions have not been designed to attract women

[BasilBabyEater]

I don't think women do think "I'd like to fuck that"

I think they might think "I'd like to fuck him"

I'm not sure that thing of totally distancing the object of their admiration from their being an actual human being and not a fuck object (see what I did there is quite as prevalent among women.

Though who knows, maybe the younger generation do, what do I know.

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

or any mens fashions.

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

yes kim.

[ThirdTimesABrokenFanjo]

the are with the exception of trousers designed to fall around your knees for comfort not the female gaze

[NiceTabard]

The money/labels/status thing goes across everyone though, not just women.

The stereotype would be that men do status with things like cars, and women do it with things like shoes. Wonder why that is

Totally untrue to say that men don't do money/labels/status though. Just when they do it, it's not seen as petty in the same way as when women do it. Again, you have to wonder why that is

[NiceTabard]

Trousers falling down = making out you're "hard" = related to impressing other males.

[BasilBabyEater]

Yes I think you're right Kim - men are still judged on appearance, it's just that that judgement doesn't carry over to all the other areas of their lives, as it does for women.

As with everything else in life, whether your appearance is a serious threat to progress in other areas of your life, is dependent on where you are in the social heirarchy. So being fairly plain has had no impact on Princess Anne whatsoever, being ugly doesn't matter if you're Wayne Rooney and can kick a football around a pitch competently; but if Anne had been born into a much lower social group and Rooney hadn't been good at football, their appearance would have been much more significant in terms of how they were able to function in all areas of their lives.

The average man is higher up the heirarchy than his female counterpart, so his appearance will have less impact on the rest of his life.

[NiceTabard]

Enough of them do though Kim to make it something that most females have had (unwanted attention of one sort or another) and are aware of when they are out and about. It doesn't take more than a significant minority of men / boys behaving that way to quite heavily affect most females. IYSWIM.

[Messandmayhem]

I have my hair shaved at the sides and the top is bright pink, often swept up into a Mohawk / pompadour type thing. I'm also short, fat and wear bright pink boots (totally outed myself to anyone who knows me).

My look is apparently not pleasing to some men, who feel they need to tell me how unfuckable I am. However my look was pleasing to a drug and drink addled man in the corner shop last week. I know this because he said "I like your hair, now come here cheeky chops and giz a kiss" before lunging at me, slobbering.

I think I'd be very happy at a gay pride event.

[BasilBabyEater]

My brother told me this hilarious story about being stuck behind a young man in some shop in Camden, who had to sort of pigeon-jump up each stair sideways because his trousers were so far down his thighs that he couldn't actually reach one foot up in a straight line. It took ages to get up the stairs.

[Mintyy]

I'm another one who thinks that the ridiculous way women preen and overgroom themselves has more to do with what other women expect than what your average run of the mill bloke wants.

And at Pride you can't really avoid all the drag queens in their porn star get-ups. That's all a bit bloody insulting to women isn't it, if you take it to its logical conclusion?

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

It's not even 25 years ago Kim. My uni photos are 15 years old and it's the same.

[NiceTabard]

Men preen

They just don't have such a high standard to try to meet.

It starts young - DD (5) was at a party the other day. The boys were all running around in what I imagine was their normal weekend clothes. The girls all had proper party frocks on and their hair done up with clips with flowers on and stuff. Apart from my DD who had track suit bottoms, a t-shirt and "boys" sandals. Which was fine. But I suddenly realised that the boys would have just come to the party as they were while the girls had been "dressed up" and had their hair done and everything. So it starts early. Why? Because society puts a premium on females looking attractive, and coincidentally society is run by heterosexual men.

[arsenaltilidie]

You don't hear the N word a lot because most people are not racist.
Same as most men don't wolf whistle women.

Anyway those men where not dressed for straight MEN, but some of the men where scantily clad for gay MEN!

[NiceTabard]

Not saying that men fancy little girls obv.

But that "feminine beauty" is considered in a very positive light in a way that masculine beauty, well, isn't. In fact men aren't encouraged to try too hard with their looks - because that is considered effeminate which is bad according to society because a. being "feminine" is a bit crap and b. homophobia much.

I am always stunned when people don't see this stuff as kind of just in-your-face obvious.

[SinisterSal]

Society is run by heterosexual men, but women participate in it. Naturally enough most people conform - so girls will police each others looks as much as guys will. But it's not for them.

In my simplistic opinion - guys judge in terms of hotness, girls judge in terms of status/competition.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Yes Nice, I agree. I was thinking the other day about the variety of female clothing and how we have to dress 'to the occasion' far more than men.

A man's grey suit, shirt and tie will take him to work (if he works in that kind of environment)/job interview or a wedding. Women will dress very differently.

DH has a pair of swimming shorts he could wear to walk to the beach, to swim in or to go to the local swimming pool at the leisure centre. I have a 'sports' costume for proper swimming and a 'beach' costume. Which in turn is so revealing (i.e. tight, cut like pants at the bottom) that it needs another item - e.g. shorts, a sarong - to walk down the road to the beach.

There is massive pressure on girls/women to conform to complex social rules about clothing.