Apparently I can't be a feminist because I changed my name when I married.

[dustandfluff]

I heard someone (a feminist writer dunno who) on Radio 4 a few months ago saying women who change their names when they get married are not feminists.

. I have long been interested in feminism and women's rights. I appreciate the feminist arguments against changing your name. I had my reasons but I don't think that's relevant here. To me this sounds as though to "be" a feminist you have to meet a particular standard.

I think this is the kind of thing that puts a lot of women off the movement.

Opinion s anyone?

[Slubberdegullion]

That's interesting. Thanks for the link edam.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

"I also resent being told that feminism is not to do with choice and that I should be doing what the bossiest women tell me to do."

Yeah, I'm a communist and I resent being told communism isn't just about my individual choices as well.*

So unreasonable and bossy, these political people. Don't they realise a political movement is just about my choices?

No-one's telling you what you should do Exotic. They're just pointing out that following the status quo, whatever your reasons, isn't a feminist choice. It's just an individual choice which you of course, have the right to exercise.

• I'm not really

[seeker]

""I also resent being told that feminism is not to do with choice and that I should be doing what the bossiest women tell me to do."

Yep. I'd resent that too.

The issue is that just because a woman chooses to do something doesn't make it a feminist choice. Women are capable of making profoundly anti feminist choices- and, on occasion men are capable of making feminist choices.

Saying that feminism is about women being able to make choices is only half the story.

[Trills]

Feminism is not to do with choice - wrong.

Feminism means that women can choose what they like - also wrong.

[exoticfruits]

I find it far more worrying that according to a current thread many women would rather be beautiful than have brains-it make a change of name seem trivial. Men wouldn't even consider the question.

[marriedinwhite]

I have spent most of my life ensuring that I am able to do things that ultimately will please me. Many would say I am just selfish; I would say I am just honest. It has done me no harm at all and along the way I have always thought about others.

I have done a lot of things that fall into the feminist camp and a lot that simply don't and I don't regret any of it. Had a good first career, stunning in fact, been a sahm, went back to work in a more worthy cause, am chief domestic manager, like the hairdresser, like make-up, like being neat and tidy, like quite a lot of the domestic side of things and really like looking after and caring for DH and the DC.

Frankly I don't care if that make me a feminist or not. I am me and at 52 I am happy and seem to have two relatively well balanced teenagers, barring the odd blip but I think we (and I mean we as in DH and I) have managed that reasonably well for 22 years of being married and nearly 25 together

[Trills]

Ah, but if you were really beautiful and really stupid you wouldn't know how stupid you were - ignorance is bliss

[exoticfruits]

Me too marriedinwhite-but slightly older. I like my freedom (couldn't do without it) but I love being a woman-I think they have much the best deal-I decided that aged about 5yrs and have never changed my mind!

[HullyEastergully]

That's very nice, married and exotic, pleased for you both. It is, however, entirely irrelevant.

[exoticfruits]

Only relevant in that feminism is about choice.

[exoticfruits]

There isn't much point in feminism if you are forced into a choice that makes you unhappy.

[HullyEastergully]

Don't you understand that the choice of changing a woman's identity to a man's is skewed?

The "choice" = follow a patriarchal tradition that is designed to switch owernership from one man to another, or not.

What sort of "choice" is that? And how on earth can it be a feminist one?

[seeker]

Exotic and married, are you saying that any choice a woman makes is automatically a feminist choice because it is a woman making it?

[NotGoodNotBad]

"Only relevant in that feminism is about choice."

Aaargh, exotic, for the 10th time, feminism is not about choice!

[worsestershiresauce]

I changed my name because it is easier for everyone in a family to have the same surname. My sister married before me, and didn't. Lots of people have called me to ask me what they should call her (no one really knows whether she is a Miss, Mrs, Ms, double barrelled etc) so I figured it would be better to avoid this confusion when I married. My maiden name is also quite awkward and ugly to say together with my first name, so I was quite glad to swap.

[NotGoodNotBad]

So worsestershiresauce, if all these are good reasons for name changing, why aren't men queueing up to change theirs?

[HullyEastergully]

They only have to ask once, hardly that demanding...And if the default position was Ms, that gets rid of half the question.

Funny how so many other countries manage with different surnames without the entire social fabric imploding.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

Presumably if your sister didn't tell anyone otherwise her name is still Ms Ownsurname Worcestershire - I really can't see what's confusing about that. I don't assume a woman has changed name or title on marriage until she tells me she has or I see it on a letter or something.

[MorrisZapp]

I have a friend who changed her surname upon marriage. It took her weeks and weeks of letters, phonecalls, form filling and endless admin to get it all sorted.

At one point I said to her, well I suppose if its this much hassle you could just have your bank statements arrive with your own name on them. She looked at me as if I was mad.

Her choice, of course. But changing your surname isn't easy, its a pain in the arse.

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

That, Morris, is why I didn't bother. I am still Miss to the bank. The passport only got changed because I needed a new one. I was quite passive about formally name changing, but active about it socially. Hmm

[worsestershiresauce]

They were good enough reasons for me. In answer to the questions, no she didn't tell anyone what to call her, and no one liked to assume anything so by default asked me. It was a pain, as she hadn't told me either! She doesn't call herself Ms ownsurname btw. Ms (to her) is apparently is code for divorced!

I don't see myself as subservient to men by following a convention that gave me 1. a nicer sounding name, 2. a cohesive family name (I want my children to share a name with both of us) and 3. less confusion for everyone else.

I don't expect people to agree with me though, it was something that worked for me.

[exoticfruits]

I can't see how feminism is me having to think what some self appointed woman tells me I should think. How am I better off?
I have already been told the individual doesn't matter, but I would hate to live in a world where the individual doesn't count.
I can't see why a woman telling me what to do is any better than a man telling me what to do. I prefer a free choice and my brand of feminism is women having the right to choose for themselves and not what the most strident woman in the group happens to think they should choose!
I am not subservient to men-the name doesn't make me subservient-the name is personal choice and trivial. I am never going to be Ms, but don't really care if it is the default-it is again trivial.

[HullyEastergully]

what do you think feminism is exotic?

[NotGoodNotBad]

So basically, exotic, you think you should be able to do as you please and to call it feminism? And to have other real feminists applaud you for these choices?

[exoticfruits]

I keep saying -choice for all women! But apparently this is not on-we can only choose what certain women tell us we can choose.

Some of my choices are not feminist ones. If I made the feminist choice my DH would have done half the child care and I should keep my career going. The fact is that he would go up the wall at home and I adored being at home with under 5yr olds and wouldn't have missed it for any money. He is ambitious and I like a job where I am busy and interested but, as long as it earns a comfortable amount, I couldn't care less about money or status. Even when I started teaching I knew that I never wanted to be a Head or even a Deputy. If we happened to have been the other way around we would have done it the other way around. If I wanted to keep my name I would have kept it. If I wanted to be Ms I would use it. I don't need someone telling me what I should do.

Why should fit some quota where he is stuck at home climbing the walls and I go off to work dripping tears I don't know!

We do what suits us. DH is better at ironing and likes it so he irons -choices are not to do with others.