Who is part of the patriarchy?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

When we use the term patriarchy, do you think that the men you know are part of the patriarchy? And if no, then who is part of the patriarchy?

For the zillionth time WE ALL ARE, BECAUSE WE ARE ALL PART OF A PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY.

Shirty - If we had a SMART plan with clear goals and timelines I would share it with you. Changing any system of oppression is not that straightfoirward. For example how do we fight racism.

The answer is we fight the patriarchy on many fronts. We support girls and women whop are most oppressed under patriarchy to improve their lives and we challenge and try to change things that are oppressive to women.

Shirty, you will get some c+pd statement. Nothing more.

A SMART plan like in business planning where your goals are Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, and Timely?

Yep Trills. I dont think any movement to overthrow a system of oppression has that

How do we achieve that Eats?

The thing is that if ALL men support and uphold the patriarchal society then how are we going to smash it?

By working togethera sw omen and with the few men who are real allies

Whoops, and if it doesn't matter what we teach our sons about equality then isn't what you're saying that it's all hopeless?

Working together in which way Eats?

Lots of women also uphold and support the patriarchy.

No of course we teach our boys about sexism and try and teach them not to be. But we dont overthrow the patriarchy by how we bring up our sons.

Yes sadly some women do support the patriarchy.

We overthrow it by challenging it on all fronts. Radical feminists do that. So under marriage men legally own women. That is why it used to be perfectly legal for husbands to rape their wives. Radical feminists got the law changed so that husbands can now be prosecuted for raping their wives.

Men don't legally own women by marrying them.

OK, so let me just make sure I understand.

In order for us as women to fight the patriarchy we need to teach our male children not to be sexist, while admitting to ourselves that external influences will ensure that they will still end up oppressing women.

What do we do about the women who uphold and support the patriarchy?

I'm not entirely sure that the change in the law to prevent men from being legally allowed to rape their wives would be considered "radical" feminism, but I will bow to your knowledge on that front.

How can we help men to understand the patriarchy and stop being patriarchal?

The law was changed because it was grossly outdated. The legal profession recognized that and I applaud them. But to claim that marital rape was an issue of 'radical feminism' in 1991 is appalling. It was an issue of any kind of feminism long before that.

*applaud them, obviously, while groaning 'wtf took you so long!'

How can we be sure that these male allies are not trojan horses or that they are not patriarchal interlopers? they are after all part of the ONLY force of oppression. Leopards......spots.....and all that!

I remember the public arguments when the proposal to change the law was first argued. It is wrong to claim that it was seen as outdated. On the contrary there were articles and letters in the papers at the time arguing that the idea that a husband could rape his wife was a ridiculous one

If it wasn't seen as outdated, it wouldn't have been changed. And you will get people writing articles and letters in the papers supporting pretty much any ridiculous idea - doesn't make them the majority, just a vocal group.

I said it was grossly outdated. It was.

There are, sadly, still people who believe rape myths.

The change in the law was a huge milestone. It's wonderful it happened. But it is awful that it had to happen, and that we had the shame of a law based on archaic precedent hanging over us for so long.

You could not be a feminist and think marital rape (any kind of rape) is ok.

To suggest that is a radical position is disturbing to me. What on earth would be the non-radical 'feminist' position?

Honestly Eats, I really do not know why you persist in starting all these ridiculous threads. Is it because you are trying to derail FWR? Is it because you hope to look clever and knowledgable? Is it because you are bored and/or dim? Who knows. I am pretty sure that your motive is not to strengthen Feminism - as you are starting to appear a bit silly now. On one hand you claim you are new to Feminism, on the other you say you are an expert on RadFem tenets. Both those claims can't be right.

If you are new and want to learn, then ask sensible questions and LISTEN to the answers - there are some brilliant posters here. If you consider yourself an experienced RadFem, well you certainly have a unique take on it.

It was changed because of campaigning. In fact some of the cases that seemed to sway public opinion were where women were still legally married to their husbands but living apart and the husband broke into the house and raped his wife.

Arguments that you could be raped by your husband in your own bed were widely ridiculed at the time.

So if all men and some women, including some feminists are ALL part of the patriarchy and only a much smaller number are REAL feminist agitators for change, how is this revolution in society going to work?

the Patriarchs.
whoever they are