Should it be illegal for men to pay for prostitution?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Should we criminalise all men who pay for prostitution, alongside help for women to leave prostituion?

AIBU to want this thread to reach 1000 posts before the punters come back?

Yes, Sabrina, you are. Because if we really want to discuss the whole issue of prostitution, we need to hear all sides.

Not just the RadFem "wouldn't it be nice" stuff.

The workers' side.

The "users"/Johns side

All of it.

@escort222 why when someone mentions being an escort and fine with it, they get called names and have sly remarks thrown at them?

Because it hurts the feminist argument of "all sex workers are victims".

If a sex worker has a tragic story to tell about how awful the sex industry is and how she wants out then feminists will love it and be all ears. They crave to hear stuff like that.

But whenever a sex worker declines to say she is a victim and is ok with her work then feminists can't stand it and will throw insults and say unpleasant things to try and silence her.

@OldLadyKnowsNothing we need to hear all sides.

Well said. We need to make sure we listen to everyone including sex workers themselves and not just the radical feminists who like to speak on behalf of sex workers.

I agree with the last few posts.
This thread is unlikely to have much personal impact on my life,but like most things in life,understanding povs on both sides,and from different people on both sides,may help to make changes if change is needed.

OldLadyKnowsNothing do you mind if I ask what your involvement is with prostitution?

Just wondering because you obviously have an interest that suggests a connection of some sort.

You don't have to answer of course.

I do understand prostitutes point of view who say they chose to do it and enjoy making good money. But I prioritise the majority of prostitutes who are not in that position

Don't tar all feminists with the same brush. Plenty of feminists are not anti porn and are not anti sex work at all. Sex work is freedom for women. Legal constraints on what we can do with our bodies and what we can sell are paternalist and imposed by men.

I am glad escorts are on the thread just as I like it when men are on threads as something you feel you are not getting the views of all just one common view which does not represent the views of most people.

So you don't like something, and it's all "ban, criminalise, punish". Sad.

If you want to see a society without prostitution, then have a look at Iran or Saudi Adabia. Both paragons of women's rights.

In a society where women have choices, some of them will choose differently from you. So it goes.

Random, people on this thread who are against prostitution believe that (a) the majority of women and girls (and men and boys) involved did not have a truly free chOice about starting this work, backed up with articles about girls starting young and the frequency of previous abuse etc. and (b) that prostitution in itself has a damaging impact on the societal position of women.

You may or may not agree with those arguments but they are the arguments. Really, no-one is saying "I don't like it so it should be banned."

Not bothering to read as I have enough problems without adding high blood pressure to the mix.

In answer to the OP: Yes. IMO anyone who has any respect for women at all would agree.

Hiding this now, as I do not wish to see whatever repugnant, truly disgusting comments are before mine.

interestingly, there is a thread on the saafe forum(for prostitutes only apparently) about this thread.

Saafe gives a much accurate portrayal of escort life than grunternet. And its clearly less glamorous than the women make out and maybe not such a big earner. Threads about women saying they need to work that very night to pay a bill and thread about really yucky men. The grunternetters should read some of it and they might think twice about the girlfriend experience.
Anyway, point I was going to make is that its stated clear that prostitutes only are welcome and anyone else wiill be banned. Hmm. How come anyone can spout shit on here?!

Also, the sterotypical mumsnetter is discussed again. How very original. Like we are SAHM with an axe to grind or are some moral crusade.

The girl who started the thread seems to be the 22 year old escort who likes married man. I would rather be a stereotypical mumsnetter(but I'm not), than boast about that !

Consuela- that's a straw man argument. Nobody has said that ALL prostitutes are damaged.

I think it was xxc's gloating attitude about relishing seeing men with partners that got peoples backs up. including MNHQ Not the fact that she claims to be a happy hooker.

Oldlady- I dont mind both sides of the argument, but the links to this thread on the other sites are inflammatory and inviting people to join up to MN purely to goad.

I am catching up after a few days away.

to respond to some questions. To the poster who wanted to know if my partner ever joined me in mywork the answer is yes he did for a couple of jobs where the clients wanted to enact some of their fantasies such as being watched, double penetration or the position horribly known as 'spit roast'. I know that some women think the thought of having sex with two men at the same time is abhorrent but I enjoy it and done well they can be pleasurable acts.
To the other poster who asked about first experiences, my first client was very good looking, very kind and very enjoyable, not very much like hardwork at all.

I know that I am one of the lucky ones. I chose to become a prostitute and I had good support. My partner drove me to all of my jobs, and bar the smelly episode, consisted of average to goodlooking men, mostly normal men but also a couple of footballers and a boyband who were famous at the time, all of them worried about ensuring I enjoyed myself. I was never made to do anything I didn't want to do. My experience of being a prostitute was positive, except for the fact that society would judge me if they knew what I did.

Avaboo, you are not alone on this thread. There are probably other ex or current escorts also reading but are to afraid to post incase they are outed.

*mcmooncup Wed 12-Sep-12 22:43:31
Most workplaces are often still very male dominated (i.e. most CEOs are male), and women in the workplace have all sorts of conformity issues. This can make women behave badly, I agree. And also I agree, that some women are horrible.

BUT overall it is a feminist issue - i.e. a systemic problem.*

I don't agree on the last sentence, because it's not just women that are affected by the unfair world in which we live, it's a question for human kind as a whole.

But I think if you (collectively) have a will to invest time and money in services to support people, to think creatively about jobs and money, to see everyone as an equal and valuable part of society, there is a way forward which is better than what we have

I agree, but how do get the entire world to come around to this way of thinking?
Surely it's then back to rule by majority which inevitibly means some people will not be happy about decisions that are made on their behalf.
The last labour government had some good ideas, but their idea's around regeneration/community development required artificial fiscal stimulation which now means we have such a high public finance deficit.

I think xxcxx is just very young and caught up in that phase where she sees other women as the competition whilst men are the prize.

regarding xxcxx view on this, I don't think it's particularly nice to get a thrill from this, some women do though, some women seek out married men for affairs, perhaps this then becomes an issue of morals.
And then the fundamental issue of where does anyones moral stand point come from and is it justifiable to apply your morals to the next person when as humans non of us are that perfect to stand in judgement of anyone else.

I think that in long term relationships/marriages we feel we can have possession of another person, when I don't believe you can, no matter how close you are to someone you will never be able to read their mind or perhaps truely understand their motivations or desires.

So going after an attached man is more of a fingers up to the man's partner who perhaps believe that there possession of that person will automatically mean that their partner will forsake all others.

Messy, the stats are in your favour- only a minority of men use prostitutes.

If that is the case then why will criminalising a small minority of men change women's social standing?

AIBU to want this thread to reach 1000 posts before the punters come back?

I'm working on it lol!!

I do understand prostitutes point of view who say they chose to do it and enjoy making good money. But I prioritise the majority of prostitutes who are not in that position

But you do not know this as fact, and this is why it is hard to debate without true stats.
Prostitution I feel is largely hidden away due to the attached social stigma's and I don't believe that it is just men that perpetuate them.

Avaboo, you are not alone on this thread. There are probably other ex or current escorts also reading but are to afraid to post incase they are outed.

And this is very unfair, plus I would also say when you first take the plunge into prostitution, for a lot of people it's not an easy decision, hence why so many would not do it.
The last thing women in this position need, is to have their decision questioned by a majority who have never walked in their shoes.
So when I previously mentioned about women being bad to other women, it related to just this.

Why would anyone want to fill up a thread and stifle debate? It might annoy some women that many want no prohibition imposed on paying for sex but we should be allowed to discuss the issue.

No one is saying all women have a great time selling their bodies for sex (nor tolerating awful marriages in which they are economically dependent on men) but that does not mean we need to legislate to stop those things.

avaboosmummy, re post Wed 21.35pm "it doesnt sit easily with my religious beliefs"
Do you feel guilty,and if so what do you do about the guilt?

amillionyears

Yes I do feel guilty, as I don't think any higher order would appreciate prostitution.
I also hope any higher order see's the mess we are on as a society and allows us a certain amount of error as long as we are working towards something better.
I hope that as I aim to use this work to get me to a better position that this in the end will be my redemption.

but their ideas around regeneration/community development required artificial fiscal stimulation which now means we have such a high public finance deficit

'fueled by US govt policies of home ownership' that should read, sorry