Love marriages banned in Indian village

[AnnieLobeseder]

More erosion of women's rights, this time in India.

But I guess with the huge erosion that's going on the US at the moment over the elections, it's hardly surprising that other parts of the world are following their lead.

You shouldn't presume that. I am interested in the distinction between criticism and action, of any kind. I deplore all of those practices. I don't think that's too hard to understand but then this is not the most intellectual discussion I've had about this. I hope Eclectic comes back.

whole quote:

"To support women in India you need to support women's groups in India who are working against this stuff.

Again, this is just obvious isn't it? I am not understanding this. Do you really think that women on this thread want westerners to go to india to try and tell the silly men where they're going wrong? I mean, come off it."

Not just white. Actively racist. And don't you forget it

Sardine: if you don't want westerners to campaign on the domestic women's rights in other countries please tell the UN and others that do so, Melinda Gates and so on. There's no point telling me.

Actually I can't be bothered.
Really I can't.
You think it's funny to come here on the wind-up. But real actual women in real actual countries around the world are really actually being hurt and killed, every minute of every day.
We are going to talk about it, and your ridiculous twisting and turning will not stop that.
You think that your contortions here are clever, I'm sure, but anyone reading the thread who actually is interested in women and girls, and making things better for them, will take away from this the important point. That rights are beign removed from women globally, they are being rolled back, and this is worrying and scary and important.
It will take more than one person going "ooh you're racist" and stamping their feet to put people off caring about this stuff.
So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I'm not on the wind up, I think it's an interesting and very serious question. I don't think you understand it and I don't think you're reading your own posts.

So sorry we're not up to your standards. Maybe I haven't got my feminist gold medal but I actually couldn't give a stuff what academic feminists would say. If I know academics they'd probably all disagree with each other anyway. What's happened here is wrong. We can all agree that it's wrong. Wanting to go to the shop on your own as you've done all your life is not radical. It's a basic and established freedom. Many people in India will be wanting to stop this rolling back of women's rights. Good on em. If someone tells me where they are I'll bung em a tenner.

I think there is a cultural difference in our approaches on this thread. Yes I do believe action needs to be taken in India to challenge this oppression but info think Indian women living under the oppression need to be the main contributors. There is change happening but the society and cultural influences are so ingrained and complex it needs to be approached from within the society and culture. Not everyone contributing towards the oppression are big bad white men. Some of them are Indian women and mothers.

What I'm saying is, it's all very well to deplore things. We are all deploring madly. But what happens next?

It's not a "rolling back". These women never had these rights in the first place... This needs to be addressed.

So I say
"Which is why you support the relevant organisations in India who are working against this stuff, eclectic."
and then
"accuracy which is entirely the reason that feminists in different countries support each other at grass roots level.To support women in India you need to support women's groups in India who are working against this stuff."

And then ages later you say

"I am saying that the most effective work, in contrast, is done by women's groups in India. Do you want a link to a feminist group in India."

No shit sherlock!!! And then you ask me if I am reading things? Yes I am, and my conclusion is that you are on the wind-up.

AR, this is not meant to be an academic or intellectual debate. This discussion was never intended to be representative of the ivory towers of glittering academe.

'Tis a pissed Friday night debate on a parenting forum. It is an attempt to disseminate and discuss some fairly difficult and uncomfortable information about the cirumstances under which women in other parts of the world have to live, and to initiate a debate with a diverse bunch of mostly UK-based females who have little in common apart from the fact most of them have vaginas and children.

Thanks Eclectic. I agree with you I am very glad to find. I also feel that many women who've climbed the ladder, perhaps I'm thinking of Mayawati here, have kicked it away behind them. Also an additional problem is that some more powerful middle class spokeswomen in India are seen as too western influenced to have an impact? Would you agree with that? I really want to know your view.

Theres no wind up, only misunderstanding.

eclectic it is rolling back, because they are stopping women from doing things that they were previously able to do.

Yesterday you could leave the house unaccompanied, today you can't.

have you read the article?

No I'm not on the wind up. What do you mean by grass roots support? Moral, material, financial, personal support?

Pacifist: if it's just a thread to say isn't this awful well, what's the point really. A million women could be reading this and we'll all think, oh how awful. Then what.

This board has me confused, though perhaps because I only lurk from time to time. So many threads seem to turn into an instant fight.

Anyhow, since I am not even sure I qualify as a feminist for MN purposes, let alone an academic one, I don't have any moral problems in wishing I could influence culture in this village / society / country sufficiently to allow greater freedom for the women there.

Thanking my lucky stars I live here...

grass roots

HTH

Yes I agree. It's very very complicated. We all know it's wrong but simply stating that fact does not instead help the situation. Understanding and empathy of the context is required.

Unfortunately, many posts on this forum simply state black and white facts which everyone agrees with. What doesn't happen... Is trying to understand why and how these practices exist and how to change things for the better in practice to actually positively affect women's lives.

They are not stopping women. Get your facts right. The law is new but women were not allowed in many villages to go anywhere alone without a chaperone. So it's no rollin back. It's merely enforcing the already existing societal rules.

Well that all sounds very impressive eclectic but what does it mean.
What are you suggesting.

Also interested to know how changing laws to restrict women's freedoms, that they previously enjoyed, is not rolling back their rights. You say they have never had these rights. But they have. Can you elucidate?

eclectic that's not what it says in the article.
Can you show me where you have found out the situation for women previously in this village? That this law is in fact only formalising things that were in force anyway. Thanks.

I can't open that link, would you mind explaining how it describes western feminists supporting Indian organisations, in what form? How actively?

In many villages and probably this one... Women have not ever had these rights! What is there to explain?