Fifty Shades

[neveravictim]

I know this has been talked about alot but just wanted some advice. As a victim of rape the idea of submissive sex makes me feel very uncomfortable but all my friends are reading this. So do you think it is a book I should read too. Is t really about women's empowerment? Have nc btw. Thank you x

pornmonkey, I mean the sort of stuff you can find with a couple of clicks on the top ranking sites if you google 'porn'. I stopped using porn a while ago so have no desire to go and look for specific examples but I seem to remember rather a lot of it was about causing women pain, restraining them or humiliating them. Frequently all three.

Thanks, it was a genuine question. I don't know what mainstream porn. In my younger days maybe softporn or what might be on TV. I don't know if mainstream porn exists anymore.

Of course there's mainstream porn. All you have to do is type "porn" into a search engine and thousands of free sites come up. How much more mainstream do you want to get?

Those thousands of free sites then ask viwers to follow different paths to the type of porn they are seeking. Therefore if you are seeking for example male dom/female sub then that is what you will find. If it is female dom/male sub then that also. I doubt there is such a thing as mainstream porn anymore. When I was young, pornography was always a magazine or a video portraying a man and a woman having sex, with few variations. Young people today will find it just as easy to find very extreme and disturbing images and videos, and I am concerned about that. So I don't think there is mainstream porn as I knew it anymore.

POPG: I think she did remove a lot of stuff from her blog, can't remember whether it was a legal issue or something that happened in her personal life.

FWIW regarding your question on why people do BDSM, well my take on it (which may or may not be what Bitchy Jones thinks, I am not her and I can't remember if she ever addressed this specifically) is that it's got a certain amount in common with things like roller coasters and horror films as well as with extreme sports; a mixture of 'safe scares', catharsis, pushing your body to your limits for the adrenalin/endorphin kicks, exploring your imagination etc etc. Different people have different reasons - the Bizzybiz blog linked to upthread also criticizes 50 Shades of Shit for its portrayal of BDSMers as fucked-up idiots and tortured souls when many of us are not like that at all.

SGB, I agree that BDSM is about safe scares. The first time I went to a dungeon my partner and I collapsed into giggles for about 15 minutes and we were on a massive endorphin rush for the rest of the day.

The idea that people into BDSM are somehow tortured souls is ridiculous. It's hard to generalise about a scene, but I find most people are LESS fucked up than others, or at least more ok about their fuckedupness.

I used to know a couple of people who were so heavily into the BDSM scene that they ran workshops on how to do it safely. Don't know now it is becoming more mainstream - but then in the 80's, they would say it was an open secret amongst those into BDSM, that it was about childhood abuse. And in the 80's heard a few others as well saying that they knew they were re-enacting childhood abuse, but had a compulsion to do so.

Not blaming those individuals though.

I think the problem with BDSM is that it would be extremely easy for an abuser to latch onto and label their own actions as "BDSM" when they're not, they're abuse. And I think that this does happen very much, although I am sure there are also a lot of couples/singles/swingers/whatever who genuinely do it because they enjoy it and it is a mutual thing rather than a power thing.

In the same vein Bertie, I think it would be easy for vulnerable women to go along with being the sub, in theory giving consent, but more going along with it because they find it too difficult to stand up for themselves.

EBAL, I can tell you for certain that that isn't true of everybody who's into BDSM and actually I doubt it's true of most. I dare say it's true of some though, which is a horrible thought, especially for those who 'play' with people they don't necessarily know that well. You could just be abusing somebody all over again, and yes, Bertie, there's a lot of talk on the BDSM scene about how they're all very good at weeding out abusers but I'm not so sure. As long as people stick to limits and safewords, who knows what's going on in their heads?

SGB and yellow, yes to the endorphin rush effect. It's definitely a kick, but I don't think that's all that's going on. It doesn't explain the whole D/s dynamic, the control and humiliation aspects, the 'power exchange' thing. If it was just the endorphin rush, I think there'd be lots of tops and bottoms, without the need to dominate or submit to anybody.

i agree, some vunerable women will fall through that net, and there are some real sadists out there.

people within BDSM tend to spend alot of time hanging out and talking about safe words, the nature of consent, safety ETC, but of course they do, it;s far too dangerous not to!

i'm sure most people in the lifestyle would see a non-consentual abusive relationship for what it is.

i liked that link where the safe word was 'do it to julia', brilliant! why did i never think of that.

as for the endorphin rush, to my mind that just hightens the experience, the root has nothing to do with stuff akin to roller-costers and horror movies

Ladies can I point you in the direction of Jasper Fforde's Shades of Grey. A much better read

i'm sure most people in the lifestyle would see a non-consentual abusive relationship for what it is.

Really? That frequently doesn't happen outside of BDSM.

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but what's it about for you, chairman?

well pubes, of course it happens outside of BDSM but thats DV.

if an abusive relationship was going on within the lifestyle, at the clubs and so on it would have to be pretty well conceald.

it's about very little for me i'm in a totaly vanilla marrage, but i'm not conplaining, i have a good marrage.

DV is generally pretty well concealed. What goes on in clubs is only a teeny tiny part of it. Those people go home. Even in clubs, can you really be sure how consenting it all is? How can you know that nobody there has been coerced into what they're doing?

Wasn't it you who hangs out playing story of O games with strangers on the internet? Big apologies if I'm thinking of somebody else.

well pubes, there is no way to be sure that no one is being coerced, but like i said a few posts back, some vunerable people may well fall through the net.

and yes, that was me.....bit mift you diddnt remember me !

Yes, there are abusive people on the BDSM scene, but there are abusive people everywhere. But there's also a lot of discussion on and around the BDSM scene about what is abusive (and who is abusive) and how to spot someone who might be dangerous. Plenty of people, for instance, make a fair bit of noise about the type of 'male dom' who basically behaves as though he's found a justification for mistreating women, and how this isn't acceptable.

It's pretty easy to see when a male dom is treating someone in a disrespectful manner eg not checking what is ok first, not stopping when asked, going around letching on women -these are the type that get chucked out of clubs sharpish in my experience and would get pretty short shrift.

Of course there are going to be abusive people, but how do you know the person you're having sex with for the first time wasn't abused as a child and is now acting out that abuse?

And when they get chucked out of the club where do they go? Will they stop pretending to be a dom when they step outside? What about all the people who aren't on the scene? The ones who are just trying things out, maybe because they've read shades of shite or story of o or whatever and fancy giving it a go? I'm sure you, sgb and yellow, are very responsible but I do think there are added dangers with BDSM as a whole.

You don't know that the person you are sleeping with for the first time wasn't abused and isn't acting something out, of course, but unless you're doing BDSM you're not going to be tying them up and hitting them or whatever. I think there's a difference.

I'm not having a pop at people's personal choices - I absolutely cannot take the moral high ground on this one but I find the whole thing politically bothersome.

my skin is crawling right off my bones right now, and it's not as a result of considering consensual BDSM

Chairman of course I remembered you, I was just confused by this - it's about very little for me when obviously it's more than that. Does your DW know? You've made contradictory statements about that.

What is it about for you? I'm genuinely curious.

you ok AF?

I'm not really talking about someone who is a dom being chucked out (never seen it happen) more about sleazy guys who touch you without asking - mercifully FAR rarer on the scene than normal clubs. I think they're chucked out and it's made very clear that that sort of behaviour is not on - something that wouldn't happen in a normal club. I doubt they pay heed, but at least it's made clear it's not ok.

I think as soon as you enter into that scene it becomes very clear how respectful it is and I hope that that would give anyone who thinks it's all just about whacking women about pause.

Who knows though? Of course it's a very thorny issue.

All I know is I've been treated with more respect on the BDSM scene than I am in normal day to day life. I feel much safer. I don't feel like I'm treated as a woman, but as a person.

I am also a rape victim. I have read the first one. I would say, if you think there is any chance this might trigger something for you, why take the risk?

It didn't for me but the scenarios described were so far away from my own experience, the two things almost didn't connect in my mind iykwim

But that might not be the case for you so I wouldn't risk it if I were you

I can assure you that in 6 weeks it will be all "Fifty Shaes of What?" and you'll be glad you didn't

Hope you're OK OP xx