what draws you to this part of MN, particularly if you are a man? and if you dont support feminism?

[bejeezusWC]

just what the title says really....

I have read a few contributors, and I really want to point to them and ask 'what are YOU doing here?' but its not on is it

I think if men are on/in here they ar elikely (aprt from the GOADERZ) to think of themselves as the "good guys" and hence get upset at what they perceive as "attacks" on them/men

No one likes feeling attacked so then the defence begins and then the stop making it all about you menz etc etc

Juggling

Would feel more positive about your post if you had decided you could say you were a feminist. After all, what's not to like ?

I think I am quite feminist. I agree that the traditional structure of society is detrimental to men as well as women and that the answer to a lot of mens' issues is 'more feminism' (as one of the writers on Jezebel put it). But there are people who write on this board who'd say I'm not a feminist because I don't agree with elements of their opinion.

I'm generally up for an argument, but it's obvious that there are some posters in here who do want this to be a women-only space and I haven't read enough of the folder to know if that is the general consensus or not. So that's why I don't post.

Hully - massive speculation there on men's self-assessments and motives. Bollocks as well but there you go.. fwiw I don't see meself as 'one of the good guys' at all, and some fwr posters may agree with that. I think it's when some posters post a load of old discriminatory bollocks, or personal 'attacks' that things can go the shape of the pear.

If they aren't goaderz, and don't think of themselves as "good guys," why else?

Dispassionate intellectual interest?

I think it is interesting and reasonable to discuss the idea/ option of the feminism boards being for women only. To consider how this would change them and what effect that would have.

Obviously this can make individual men feel unwelcome, and indeed the suggestion can be prompted by what an individual has said. But I don't think individual men should take it too personally - it's more ideological than that, springing from the type of thing beejeezus said in her last post.

Interesting that you say ...

"I think I am quite feminist. I agree that the traditional structure of society is detrimental to men (as well as women) my brackets!

I think to be a feminist you'd need to put that the other way round ?

no, it affects my personal and proff. life.

You might want to get that snorting thing seen to.

I went on just to gain knowledge NCG--years ago, when they were too young to have expereinced anything. I dunno, maybe I was picking up vibes which made me want to look at it We are lucky to live in a very very diverse area and most of the kids at dd1s school are not white. Many are MR. Still at aged 7 she wants her hair straightened and white skin . from having been on teh forums I was expecting this at some point. I learnt alot about;

*the media portrayal of 'white beauty' and pressure to conform (also a feminist issue)
*Likelihood of expereincing Identity crisis at a point or points in your life
Being rejected by black community for not 'being black' enough, whilst being rejected by white people for not 'being white' enough
People expecting you to be in a permanant state of identity crisis
*The importance of being able to self identify-whether that be as black, as white, as mixed race, mulatto etc (and not to take it personally if dcs id as black )
*the importance of knowing their heritage and being proud
*I feel happier that I can expect/predict a lot of attitudes that they might encounter-how people might perceive them and why-and I can arm them to deal with it

Self esteem, but that is true for all kids
Also gained confidence myself to recognise covert racism and not to tolerate it and to teach my kids that they can challenge whatever they are unhappy with, and they will be taken seriously

It also really opened my eyes to white privelege

Juggling: ""I think I am quite feminist. I agree that the traditional structure of society is detrimental to men (as well as women) my brackets!

I think to be a feminist you'd need to put that the other way round ?"

Thanks for the reminder of one of the reasons I don't self-identify as a feminist.

It affects everybody's lives, but they aren't all here.

How do you see yourself then?

Hully, why isn't dispassionate intellectual interest a possibility?

"and that the answer to a lot of men's issues is more feminism"

But feminism is firstly about addressing issues affecting women.

It's not that it isn't a possibility, but we/you are all human, there is more of a motivation than that. The snort was at the idea that we kid ourselves we can operate entirely rationally, divorced from known/unknown/unacknowledged self-views and motivations.

Got you.

^Interesting that you say ...

"I think I am quite feminist. I agree that the traditional structure of society is detrimental to men (as well as women) my brackets!

I think to be a feminist you'd need to put that the other way round ?^

The placing of "men" in front of "women" in that sentence isn't to indicate order of importance - it's to indicate that there's an additional element to what is the consensual thought amongst all shades of feminist thinking.

If the sentence said "I agree that the traditional structure of society is detrimental to women as well as men", I don't think it would make sense as most people don't hold that the structure of society is detrimental to men.

that is a valid point

however

any minute someone is going t say this has become all about the menz

Oh forget that, just noticed the thread title.

This IS all about the menz

as you were, menz

^"and that the answer to a lot of men's issues is more feminism"

But feminism is firstly about addressing issues affecting women.^

Absolutely. Men can ultimately benefit when these issues that affect women are resolved. But that benefit can only come as a result of women benefiting.

Fuck off Hully.

Goodness.

That's a bit rood.

^Oh forget that, just noticed the thread title.

This IS all about the menz. as you were, menz^

exactly why I de-lurked! :-)

safety in numbers

A menz thread? At last! How shite were England last night? They are going to get done dry by Italy on Sunday. What do we all think?