Taking AN ADULT child with a disability to a brothel

[DowagersHump]

They are talking about this on Women's Hour now. I wonder if parents with a daughter feel that she needs to be taken to a sex worker? Or is it only male children that 'need' sex?

Indeed they do, mainly by saying what is not there, no mention anywhere about the right to have sex, never was never will be. Also you are looking in the wrong place the HRA is not the standard that disabled people want or refer to in terms of human rights. The ultimate human rights test is that written up by the united nations, even the european union charter is better than the HRA.

The united nations charter article 3 states:
Article 3 - General principles

The principles of the present Convention shall be:

Respect for inherent dignity, individual autonomy including the freedom to make one's own choices, and independence of persons;
Non-discrimination;
Full and effective participation and inclusion in society;
Respect for difference and acceptance of persons with disabilities as part of human diversity and humanity;
Equality of opportunity;
Accessibility;
Equality between men and women;
Respect for the evolving capacities of children with disabilities and respect for the right of children with disabilities to preserve their identities.

My attitude as you call it comes from this document and not the fact that you have not heard enough about human rights OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere.

I dont really understand the point you are making leith.

I am talking about the HRA because it was developed to stop people having to take their cases to Europe to be heard.

It was meant to save time and money but has been treated as if it is some kind of criminal's charter.

I asked about your attitude towards me. I apologise if I am wrong but you seemed to be barking at me for accusing you of doing something.

It rather took me aback as I hadnt noticed you until then.

Sorry, just looking at your posts again - they are quite confusing - do you think I am anti disbility rights or something

Oh, let me also apologise as I felt you were barking at me. I am sorry for giving any offense, and I am so very glad to see you say what you did about the HRA being a criminals charter.
My perfect world would be one where human rights were confered as a set of principles at birth to every human. These would be in line with all the things that each of the minorities want to change about our society. In general then I think male and female able and disabled black and white, all have the capacity to live together. However to do that each group will need to compramise as some of the gains of one group will be at the expense of others. This will not be popular but needs to be acheived in order to move on. Human rights are not the final answer as the article above raises issues about what my access and dignity needs are over yours. However starting from a place where we agree that these are objectives not barriers is probably sounding very wet and liberal, but in my view better than the "entitled" arguments put by each politicle and social grouping.

Killed the thread now.

The trouble is:
There will always be people who insist that those 'lesser' than they (by their own evaluation) deserve no rights. This should be rectified, where possible, by legislation.
There will always be people who recognise the rights of others but claim their own rights trump others'. This should be adjudicated, as fairly as possible, by law.
There will always be those who defend their rights without accepting their responsibilities. They should be made to accept them, as far as possible, by law.
Which leaves you relying on a legal system to make all the selfish bastards act like functioning members of a functional society. The law, though, has its own agendas and they can be pretty selfish too.

Since we don't live in an ideal world, I empathise with those who realistically don't have any opportunity for sexual experience unless they are assisted. The usual way of such things is for the person of compromised opportunities to pay to get their needs met - paying for company, for example, as well as to have their toilet needs attended and so forth.

If we cannot envisage a paid-for sex service without exploitation, how do we balance that issue against the limitations of the person who can't have sex (or go to the toilet, etc) without hiring someone to assist?

I would like to think there are people who provide this service honestly and - at least - no less willingly than the toileting assistant. The websites I looked (very briefly) at seemed to suggest there are.
But I just ... don't ... know.

while I agree absolutely that sexual exploltation is always and entirely wrong, it doesn't mean that discussing issues aroudn human rights and access to sexual expression should be excluded from this or any other section, unless a clear set of MN guidelines exist to that effect?

It wasn't about MEN's right to exploit, it was about ADULT CHILDREN. Gender unspecified because it affects everyone.

I know a woman with various physical impairments who has made an arrangement with a consenting male to provide paid-for sex. I can't judge her, she has one life and that is what she feels she wants and is happy to pay for.

I dunno, Dittany, are you saying that men and women who're too disabled to have sex or masturbate should shut up and put up? Is no less dismissive solution imaginable?

xpost, Hully

They are talking about this on Women's Hour now. I wonder if parents with a daughter feel that she needs to be taken to a sex worker? Or is it only male children that 'need' sex?

This first post?

Ok then, no, it isn't only parents of males.

The overwhelming majority of purchasers of sex are men

Yes, currently, because men have all the power and money. But it would be interesting to see what happens if that ever changes. The Gambia, perhaps?

So they can have unpaid-for sex or celibacy?

Hah, I was thinking of Gambia, too! Problem is, that's also exploitative. I know there are happy outcomes, but even they arose out of a context where rich women use poor men (who no doubt see themselves as the users ... so not unlike your 'happy hooker' scenario.)

I last had sex six years ago. It's different for me because I could. I choose not to have a random, slightly desperate shag but I could choose to go for it. My celibacy is not at all comparable to that of a person who realistically can't get sex of any kind without paying.

I have to go to bed...but I want to clarify that I think that:

1. Currntly women are utterly exploited in prostitution by men

1. We don't now what it might be like were women to gain the privileges currently enjoyed by men (apart form the Gambia)

1. This is really rather separate from a debate about the "needs" and "rights" of disabled women and men.

On the other hand, I'm too disabled to go more than half a mile from home by myself. If I want to go somewhere I have to pay. That's the way of it.

I don't want anybody telling me what help I'm allowed to hire. Equally, I don't want to be hiring people unethically. So can we please keep looking at possible ways that people who need help with sex might be able to hire it ethically?

Dittany: I will tell you what is wrong, it is the "entitled" who neither have to think or care about something. Telling those that live each day being consumed by their inability to do the most private and intimate things, that they should just suck it up!

The subtext is all yours, you want to not talk about human rights unless it is the human rights of prostitutes, and then you wonder why men abuse women. Perhaps if you accorded the same level of empathy for every human to use enjoy human rights then prostitutes could be seen as something other than victims.

Garlicbum: I agree with everything you said, the solution is to keep working on finding ways to provide a service in a legal acceptible way, again I poae the question why is it fine for society to have so little concearn over the job of a woman to wipe the arse of a complete stranger, and be paid. When the same woman could also be paid for other services if she chooses to do them.

That's ridiculous, we don't choose whether or not we have to piss and shit.
There are tools that disabled people can use to aid their ability to masterbate, obviously it depends on their capabilities but these could be used more.
Also dating services for disabled people do exist. But there is not much awareness of them.