Taking AN ADULT child with a disability to a brothel

[DowagersHump]

They are talking about this on Women's Hour now. I wonder if parents with a daughter feel that she needs to be taken to a sex worker? Or is it only male children that 'need' sex?

Perhaps I had opened the door to your asking questions. Nevertheless I find your tone accusatory and judgemental which, given that I had already indicated that I woukd find this thread difficult, seems insensitive at best.

Perhaps you are unaware that expressing surprise at your entirely incorrect assessment of my levels of sadness is both pompous and rude.

Yes Pagwatch, not an easy situation to face at all

I think Eats, it will be because even though it is illegal and morally unpalatable it is available. In particular though no other route exists and the difficulty of people saying to another set of people that "you should not do" something in some ways makes it more appealing, but in human terms it becomes much more difficult to stay focused and moral. We live in a very sexualised society, it must be difficult to be reminded day in and day out that you are missing out on what would appear from the media to be what everyone else is enjoying. It would I suggest be in the same camp as a childless woman seeing nothing but pregnant woman, or small babies day in and day out.

Because all childless woman naturally want babies

Pagwatch: I have already apologised and I do so again, I am sorry for any distress caused. However you replied to my post, you could have ignored it. Me asking for clarification could well be tactless and offensive but in an open forum and since I do not know you I can ask because I have no way of knowing what your private views are so I am not able to tell if you want to engage or not.

My direct manner is not to everyones taste.

Frankly if a disabled adult is able to make the decision to visit a brothel, then they can also make the decision to call a taxi to take them there. This is one area of a person's life I don't believe any parent should play a part in. If they really can't manage the whole calling a taxi thing then presumably they are disabled enough to have access to support services (a carer?) who could assist them. Or friends who would do same.

I see no more reason why a disabled person should visit a brothel than an able-bodied one, but ultimately the reasons are probably the same- the desire for no-strings sex, sex without a relationship. It seems a pretty weird thing to be enabling as a parent, to be honest.

I agree no-one is entitled to sex.

I do think it's important to accept disabled adults have perfect right to want sex, and physical closeness, just as much as anyone else. I think sometimes people (not on here! But in RL) forget this, or don't want to think about it, or somehow think that a disabled adult wanting sex is in some way inappropriate. That is really sad and horrible, IMO. It is (or should be) a totally separate issue from being entitled to sex itself, I think.

I was thinking about attitudes with Down's Syndrome (which I know is only one very specific situation) and how until relatively recently, I think people with Down's were not encouraged to have sexual relationships even if it could be shown that they were quite capable of understanding the issues of consent. I think that is changing and that's a really good thing. I would hope that maybe the progress could be in this sort of area - accepting people's desires as natural and helping support them in expressing those desires - rather than by saying 'OMG, disabled person! Must pay for sex!' which just seems wrong on so many levels to me.

Apparently both from these boards and from reputable research, childless women suffer a range on mental health often accompanied by physical health related issues, brought on by the huge feelings of failure and isolation that wanting a child brings on. My point being that this sense of failure and frustration is common over a range of issues being unable have a sex life being one.

If you would like to dispute that such deep feelings of unhappiness exist for childless women I suggest you try that over on the other threads or read some appropriate material. If your point was to denigrate what I said by picking up one one statement in my reply then I assume you have nothing logical to add.

I agree LRD, of course most people want sex and physical closeness.

Leith - Are you a MRA? Because it is a long time since I have heard such rubbish. Can you provide links to this "research"?

My last was aimed at Eats, I hope that was obvious.

Eats, you are seriously disputing that some women suffering infertility do NOT suffer mental and physical health issues? I think it is you that should provide your evidence?

Saw a programme about 15 years ago in a residential home where the carers were trained that if any disabled epsron wanted sex it was only right to help them into bed or wherever and then leave them to get on with it. That seems right. And as long as someone isn't so severely mentally disabled that they can't possibly give consent, then of course they have the right to be involved in consexual sex.

Women suffering infertility who desperately want a baby is NOT the same as childless women. But I think you know that

And even then the mental health issues may be depressionin some women - but physical health issues??

Tell me do men who are childless also suffer mental and physical health problems as a result?

In what way Eats, is being childless not the same as having infertility issues. women of course can be childless for many reasons, however to say that only women who are infertile and therefore childless are worthy of any diagnosis of depression or mental ill health would be to reduce some women to their medical condition as well as to ignore other women.

You picked up the phrase "Childless" women in order to pick at my argument, you have derailed the thread.

Leithlurker before I had children I was childless.

HTH.

I listened to this program too. It doesn't seem that the parents feel they "need" to take either their male or female children to a sex worker. It's more that the subject is seen as taboo and the lady being interviewed was trying to get across that this kind of service was available. She spoke of other specialist friends so I presume she would know a male sex worker who could do a similar thing for disabled women. I would think that if the disabled person wanted it and the parents or carers were open to it, that male/female wouldn't come into it.

I can see however, that the perception would be that it's only males who "need" sex. It seems to depend on the attitudes of all concerned as to whether it's something that is sought out, not to mention where you live (in relation to whether sex workers are legal or not).

My mother is disabled and yet still manages to have a meaningful relationship with my father. It's a myth that no man could possibly be attracted to a disabled woman - plenty of men out there are.

I also have a son with SN. He is still very young, so this is an issue that is a long way into the future for us, but yes, it is sad to think we live in a society that would prefer to deny him that aspect of his humanity, but I would never encourage him to pay for sex. His (potential) desire for sex does not trump the right of a woman not to be exploited. Who knows, he may find a woman who is attracted to him and who is willing and able to consent to a relationship. I certainly hope so.

If he is incapable of understanding or incapable of the physical act, then I don't think it is a reflection on society, simply a hard reality for the individual, however unpleasant that might be. As my son grows up, perhaps modern medicine will improve and he and others like him will have more opportunities and be able to participate more and more in the world around them. I live in hope.

Thanks for changing the title MNHQ :)

Sweet: So I should have said "Some" Childless women then, I accept that it was badly phrased, but to get in to this kind of debate about a principle that women who have some health issues feel that as women and as humans they are deficient or less worthy than others would have been easily understood I would have thought, and so not worthy of derailing the original thread.

Eats. I did not see your post about Carers I apologise for saying you had nothing logical to add. Seeing as many of these care workers are onb min wage contracts to provide care, do you think it isx possible that the same arguments will be levied at any attempt to involve care workers in this aspect. My own view is that it could be part of the way forward, as would perhaps a diffrent kind of approach to care givers. Perhaps one that involves one carer becoming the main paid care giver for each person on the understanding that a relationship would form and that a physical relationship as well as emotional one would form.

If I had a disabled daughter, I'd like to think that if this was something she wanted to do, I would not refuse to help or enable on moral grounds. As an adult it would be her choice.

Throwing a couple of slightly different lights on this (I haven't heard or read the articles, only this thread):-

1. Not all sex providers are prostitutes. I can see an argument for taking a disabled young adult of either sex to a physical sex therapist, for example.

1. It used to be usual for fathers to take sons to a prostitute for their first sexual experience. The service was generally provided free. Obviously this was a very skewed deal, with nasty overtones of "nice girls don't" and male entitlement ... but I wonder whether it'd be a good idea to teach young adults of both sexes how to do good sex?

Just a question.

Leith - your "principle that women who have [infertility] issues feel that as women and as humans they are deficient or less worthy than others" is my father's principle! He was a nutcase, and even he came round to respecting me despite my - ahem, barrenness.

This makes your assumption even more absurd than my insane father's. HTH.

When I talked about carers I was not talking about carers having sex with severely disabled people. I was talking about carers helping 2 physically disabled people into bed or wherever, so they could have sex - the carer leaving the room for sex to take place. That seems sensible to me.

And as Alex said there are people with sever disabilities who do ahve decent long term partners and have sex. I am not denying the discrimination they face, simply that there are severely disabled people having consensual sex.

In a related point, I think it is a disgrace that generally residential homes can not provide double beds. Have known a few elderly and disabled couples go into the same home and all they are offered are single beds in different rooms.

Garlic - How are you coping with your mental and physical problems?