"You're not like a rape victim"

[BasilBabyEater]

That's what someone said to me years ago, when I pulled him up on some shit he was saying about rape.

I can't remember what shit he was saying exactly; it was probably some rape myth stuff and I pointed out to him that I might be a rape victim for all he knew. And he came back with that. He dismissed out of hand, even the possibility that someone like me could be a rape victim. I was obviously so far from what his idea of a rape victim was, that he could dismiss the idea that I might be one, with no hesitation.

I decided to write something about this - the public perception of a rape victim - and then realised that I didn't have the faintest idea of what it is so decided not to bother. But I wanted to pursue the question.

What is a woman who is "like a rape victim" like? What did you think she was like before you came across feminist ideas? What do you think the general public think a rape victim is like? Do they still have a fixed idea of this? Was this bloke an unusually neanderthallic specimen or was he voicing quite a common perception? Wossitallabaht? Any ideas?

Yes it is ludicrous. But I always feel uncomfortable if feminists treat people who believe rape myths as idiots. I don't mean the kind of comments Cailin referred to - he was an idiot. But the idea that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by say getting drunk.

It is such a common belief and we are conditioned and often taught to think that.

You're right. What makes me angry isn't so much a mum trying to work out how best to look after her daughter and telling her she'll be ok if she never walks home alone (though that is sad too because we know it doesn't work). What makes me angry is a whole society geared up to propagate these myths and lay all the blame on the victims when we should be blaming the rapists and banding together to do that.

What I mean is, when I'm saying it's ludicrous rape myths exist (and it is, because they are logically very absurd) - I'm not saying 'oh, what idiots people are to believe that!'. I'm saying, isn't it awful that the conditioning is so strong, that we've been convinced of something so ridiculous.

Yes I did realise you meant that LRD and I agree with you. More a comment on some posts/comments I have seen in the past. Although I didn't see the recent thread.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It bears repeating IMO and I wouldn't want someone to read this and think I was knocking them for believing these things.

I think that when rape is portrayed in TV and film fiction, the woman is frequently shown as crumbling in the aftermath. The rape is shown to be the single most important part of her story and everything about the programme/film is filtered through the woman's experience as a rape victim. There is often little attempt to show her as a fully rounded character who is surviving and living her life.

So when people think about rape victims they imagine those women they have seen on TV, who cease to be able to function emotionally and socially. Then they look at the real life woman they are talking to, they see she is working, raising her children, chatting and laughing. Their limited exposure to rape in the media tells them that rape victims are destroyed by the experience, they see that the real woman has not been destroyed so ipso facto she cannot be a rape victim.

Then they assume that they have never met a rape victim (well, you'd be able to spot one a mile off, wouldn't you ), so they think that there must be something different about a woman has been raped. And that is just a short step to thinking that maybe she did something to bring it on herself.

Ok I never post in this section, but wanted to
add my thoughts if that's ok.

I think as someone said up thread that there is a certain stereotype expected to be abused or raped.

I think in adults it's definately the expectation that your life is ruled by it, I say this from being abused for nearly ten years by my uncle, from the ate of three to thirteen. It took me until I was 22 to go to the police, one of my relatives who stuck by my uncle said I would never win in court because I was too confident and mouthy and no one would believe I'd been abused.

They didn't see the teenage years where cutting myself and thinking of taking my own life was the norm.
Now I am definately the mouthy, confident strong person, but one whO was abused.

He pleaded guilty in the end so it was irrelevant anyway.

I tried to say what piprabbit said, but mine was obviously a bit lamer.

No it wasn't lame at all Ratbag - and good to see you in this section.

And I think this attitude that rape destroys you, is very common. Was it Germaine Greer who said - no rape isn't the worst thing that could happen to a woman. Which was greeted with outrage, but is I think true.

Rape could be the worst thing to happen to a woman, if her life was pretty straightforward in other ways, but I'd imagine that would be rare. Rape is awful and horrible and can be devastating but it is possible to move past it, with the right support and understanding.

i am a bit confused about 'not the worst thing that can happen'. when i was assaulted as a teenager, i still went out with my friends, went to parties, had a job etc etc, but it also completely derailled my life for about 3 years and i tried a variety of direct and indirect ways of harming or killing myself

reading it back it looks like it wasn't the worst thing that could happen to me either, but when other people say that i feel like 'huh, maybe i was making a big deal out of it?' and that i was some overreacting loser

is that making any sense? hence my confusion

Chibi once I had posted my last post I regretted it. You were not an overreacting loser, not by any means, and your reaction is perfectly understandable. Rape often does derail the life of the victim but IMO that's not entirely due to the rape itself, it's also due to the fact that the victim can often tell no one and has little or no support. Rape is horrendous but if the victim is given a chance to talk about it and is given strong, unbiased support then it is possible to move past it quite quickly IMO. The real damage happens when the victim is left to deal with it herself, then it most definitely can be the worst thing to happen to her. In today's society that's often what happens unfortunately.

Sorry, of course rape can devastate woman and of course it affects you negatively. I too have been raped. Of course Chibi and others, you are not overreacting if it derails your life and makes life almost impossible.

But other terrible things that are often worse, can and do happen. Although I appreciate for some women these things happen as part of the rape as well. So being tortured so that you lose the use of some senses or limbs? Being killed? Having your children killed in front of you?

Worse things can and do happen. I think the phrase, the worst thing that can happen to a woman, is obliquely referring to her loss of "purity", particularly for a "good" i.e. "respectable" rape victim.

And I agree with Cailin, you can't ignore the social context of how rape victims are viewed and treated. And rape myths, etc can often make things much worse for victims.

Saying rape isn't the worst thing that can happen; also means that rape can be pretty damn devastating. And if a rape isn't seen as a "real" rape i.e. not a stranger in a dark alley, then often it is can be seen by others as no big deal.

So I have heard views that prostitutes being raped is no big deal and shouldn't really affect them or that women who are raped by men they have already had consensual sex with haven't really been raped and shouldn't be upset. But that comes from the obviously false belief that this isn't really rape. When of course it is.

I agree Eats. I think it implicitly gives men too much power to imply that they are capable of doing the worst thing possible to a woman, and that by raping a woman you have hurt her more than she can possibly hurt by anything else. Of course it could be the worst thing to happen in a woman's life, but saying it automatically is isn't helpful to anyone as it perpetuates the myth of the rape survivor being a totally broken woman.

Well i did have good support from my friends and it still derailled me. whoops. i am wondering now what was wrong with me that i couldn't get past it quickly and easily like i should have. as assaults go it wasn't even that bad probably, i have heard stories on here tgat i would consider worse

i do remember even at the time feeling ashamed of how i felt, i knew people had it worse. what is/was wrong with me that i couldn't shrug it off, it took a long time before i felt comfortable going out after dark by myself, even if there were people around

i must sound like a mega loser, but i was only 15, is the stupidity of youth a defense?

Agree again Eats. I was raped by a boyfriend. It definitely wasn't the worst thing to happen to me in my life. It was awful in many ways but it wasn't devastating. But saying that makes me feel like a fraud because of the myth that because I've been raped the worst thing in the world has happened to me and I should be absolutely distraught. I'm not. It was shit but I'm not broken by it.

Oh chibi I'm so sorry, I'm hurting you with what I say. I am really really sorry.

Actually why does it have to be a contest? my dh had a bad quad bike accident once and no one said, well hmm yes, but it's not like it was the worst thing that could happen to you, you could have been paralysed. people asked how he was, he told them, and tgey seemed satisfied with that - no one felt the need to tell him about people who had breezed through similar, had worse etc

actually you know what, don't respond to this. i am not being rational, i feel all twutchy and triggered. after all these years. Loser!! (me not anyone else)

Chibi - No of course not, you are allowed to be devastated by what happened to you. Rape can be the worst thing to happen in an individual woman's life. It may be the worst thing that ever happens to her. There is always someone who has it worse, whatever you have gone through, that doesn't mean you are not allowed to be very upset and maybe traumatised by what has happened.

But maybe you can see that although it is the worst thing that had happened to you, other things could happen that are worse?

And I agree Cailin, this phrase does given men too much power

Chibi - You are not a loser!

But you are right about the quad bike accident. If someone loses a limb, people don't say that is the worst thing that could have happened to you. Theya lso don't say, worse things could have happened. Because it doesn't have all the moral overtones and it is not sexual.

But feeling confused about this, is not your fault. Society is seriously fucked up on its views on rape and that affects us all inside

I agree rape is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a woman because of reactions to the victim.

Look at the ched evans case for example, or women who are raped and mutilated in war. Or raped and purposely infected with std's.

Rape is used as a weapon in war

I was on that drink thread hrhdirona and not taken seriously as a rape/dv/pedophile survive because I was seen as a gobby feminist for standing up to the rape myths

Has happened before on mn

I only know basic feminism

Chibi we're actually agreeing with you in an indirect way. There is an understanding in society that rape is the "worst" thing that can happen to a woman, implying that that is the pinnacle of suffering and therefore for it to be "real" rape you have to be absolutely broken by it. As you point out in the example with your dad no one needed to tell him it was the worst thing that could happen to him. It was just something terrible that happened, they were able to accept it for what it was, and help him get through it. That's often not true of rape. Does that make sense?

I am really sorry some of what I said hurt you, there is no excuse for that and I do need to think more carefully about what I post.

I have responded because I think you've made perfect sense and that everything you have said was worth hearing. I'm glad you said it.