"You're not like a rape victim"

[BasilBabyEater]

That's what someone said to me years ago, when I pulled him up on some shit he was saying about rape.

I can't remember what shit he was saying exactly; it was probably some rape myth stuff and I pointed out to him that I might be a rape victim for all he knew. And he came back with that. He dismissed out of hand, even the possibility that someone like me could be a rape victim. I was obviously so far from what his idea of a rape victim was, that he could dismiss the idea that I might be one, with no hesitation.

I decided to write something about this - the public perception of a rape victim - and then realised that I didn't have the faintest idea of what it is so decided not to bother. But I wanted to pursue the question.

What is a woman who is "like a rape victim" like? What did you think she was like before you came across feminist ideas? What do you think the general public think a rape victim is like? Do they still have a fixed idea of this? Was this bloke an unusually neanderthallic specimen or was he voicing quite a common perception? Wossitallabaht? Any ideas?

Sorry, that was a big cross post, but I agree with what else you're saying too.

With lots of this stuff it would be much better if we were able to be more open as a society, wouldn't it?

basil's thing that this man said, that is effectively shutting someone up IMO because what do you say back? 'Um, I am'?

Yes sorry big x post

I can understand that LRD - but then people comment on all sorts of other experiences that they haven't had themselves. It's just that when it comes to abuse there is reluctance to engage, partly, of course, for fear of saying the wrong thing, but also I think partly because it is something people don't want to talk or think about. Which is understandable to a certain extent. I agree that rape/sexual assault is far more common that people like to admit and that when you're talking a group of women it's pretty much guaranteed that at least one has experienced some sort of incident. But no one talks about it. In that sense it a massive feminist issue because a huge injustice and cruelty that women suffer at the hands, mainly, of men, is hushed up.

Agreed Eats. The guys who abused me as a child were normal stand-up people, I even really liked one of them.

In the university town in the states where my mate went to school, stranger rapes were 1 in every 60 rapes admitted anonymously.

WRT those statistics Eats - I would imagine if you included rape, serious sexual assault, and "minor" sexual assault (if such a thing exists) the number would be closer to 80 or 90%

Maybe we need t-shirts saying - this is what a rape victim looks like

cailin - absolutely. I think you are right and of course people should be able to comment when it is not from personal experience.

It is a huge issue and a reminder why women need to be able to talk about these things and have the spaces to talk about them.

I remember the Jill Saward interview from the time - she was incredibly brave to talk about it. She was a vicar's daughter who was taken from the company of her father and boyfriend and raped in an upstairs bedroom. She was a 'classic' rape victim she was a virgin when it happened, and raped by robbers who invaded her home. Her boyfriend was hit around the head and then bath salts were poured onto his wounds. She was still harangued for selling her story.

The thing that gets me still on this topic is that there is still a myth about how a 'rape victim' should behave. A rape victim is any woman woman who has been subjected to rape - there is no right or wrong way to deal with it. Yet, according to myth, courts, police etc, there is a way women should act when they've been raped. If they don't subscribe to this particular 'way to behave' they are mistrusted in court. Helena Kennedy has spoken very eloquently of this.

LRD - I think the drunk driving analogy is a really strong one - a couple of days ago there was a thread about drunk women 'making themselves vulnerable to rape' and I was quite, quite frankly, sickened by some of the opinions. Rape myths a-go-go.

eats, did you go to London RTN last year? There are some fantastic pictures of women carrying exactly those placards there. Very brave.

I saw those pictures LRD, very affecting.

No I didn't. That sounds great!

I'm not sure where this one is from but it's very effective

running - that sounds like a really horrible thread. I hope it's been deleted.

A surefire sign of idiotic misogyny is when you have to make language say something that is self-contradicting to get your point across - you can't make yourself vulnerable!

Yeah it was an awful thread, there was one poster in particular who was really nasty.

They were all amazing.

I feel so lucky I got to go march with some fantastic women like that.

Cailin, that is great.

LRD - I actually think attitudes like that are really really mainstream and need just to be challenged. In fact I am pretty sure as a student the police gave us safety advice that was all about not making yourself vulnerable to attack and rape in particular. It is seen by some as crime prevention behaviour.

A "friend" of mine (male) said that women were "committing sexual assault" by wearing short skirts, implying that they were the ones in the wrong if they were skimpily dressed and someone "got the wrong idea" and raped them. He was totally serious. Needless to say he's not a friend any more.

Oops! Obviously cross-posted about the nasty thread and the amazing RTN women.

I got you LRD don't worry.

eats - yes, I agree, very mainstream. But slowly, I hope, changing.

cailin that just leaves me openmouthed. Awful.

LRD - sadly the thread ran and ran until it was full. THe good thing was there was a troup of MNetters who would not allow the rape myths to lie. But a few dissenters who insisted that you could make yourself 'vulnerable' to rape. Victim blaming at it's very worst.

I must either have blanked that thread from my memory or somehow avoided seeing it - but there are always people who go in and challenge.

The absurdity of trying to define what a rape victim might look like maybe helps to get away from rape myths too. It is just ludicrous when you stop to think for more than a minute.

Society does feed us these myths though. So especially for someone who hasn't really questioned stuff like this through feminism, I can understand why it is so hard for them to get their head round.

And Cailin, that is awful. I have heard that attitude before - although not for years and not from friends. Can understand why he is now an ex friend.

That's true. I guess I should say, it's ludicrous when you drop the social conditioning and think about it!