Erin Pizzey's work with Refuges

[ParsleyTheLioness]

Talking about this on the Relationships board. Does anyone remember this woman from the 60's/70's who set up an early(?) refuge? Are her work and writings still valid today, or discredited at all, anyone have any knowledge? I may not be spelling correctly.

what did you want to say about crime and race?

"Telling it like it is" fails to deal with the actual problem.

And telling it like it isn't is helpful how exactly?

And I too wonder what it is you are trying to say about race and crime. If - as I suspect and I apologise in advance if I am incorrect - you are trying to say that more crime is committed by black people - that simply isn't true.

and likely to do it without at all including issues of socio-economics and housing.

I'm sorry about the situation with your parents in law - that must be terribly upsetting and I can see why it's affected your viewpoint on this.

But no one here is saying that women never commit domestic violence, or that men who are victims shouldn't report. I don't see why men should be put off reporting by the fact that most victims are women? If there is an issue with police not taking male victims of domestic violence seriously then I'd certainly agree there is a place for some training on the subject, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying.

If there is an issue with police not taking male victims of domestic violence seriously...

As someone who has been training the police on domestic violence for the past 25 years I promise you that they take male victims very seriously. Much more seriously than they take women.

both the 'men not reporting' and the prevalence of violence against women by men are part of the same problem of the massively problematic construction of masculinity.

both can be fixed by challenging that construct.

and as if by magic feminism appeared.....

quit, saf

lol. quite, even

which is quite different

Except that the only thing feminists want to discuss is that DV is gendered and that DV only takes one form. Which is as 'patriarchal' as anyone else in supporting it as a masculine trait. And unfortunately, due to crappy politics there is vested interest by a lot of feminists to actually keep it gendered and never discuss alternatives. Anytime anyone tries to talk about any other form of DV on the MN feminist section, they are antifeminist or pro-MRA or hurting the cause in someway.

Which frankly, is utter bollocks.

The whole dividing into gender that feminism itself actually is inadvertantely with this is actually perpetuating gender lines imho. There has to be an alternative to that view, and thats where I find myself. Its certainly not providing a solution if you want to sweep the issue under the carpet and constantly say, "Oh but its all about women as they suffer more".

A victim is a victim.

I don't think anyone on here has said that DV only takes one form... but the fact of the matter is that feminism is a class analysis, and all such analyses involve some generalisation.

E.g. there are many black people in the UK who are very successful in career terms and earn high salaries. But, overall, black people in the UK are more likely to be unemployed than white... and I think there is a value in discussing this fact and looking at ways we could improve the situation. But you would probably find this a wrong-headed approach.

Its certainly not providing a solution if you want to sweep the issue under the carpet and constantly say, "Oh but its all about women as they suffer more".

I think perhaps you haven't understood what gendered means.

It doesn't mean that all victims are women and all perpetrators are men. What it means is that gender plays a key role in the behaviours of both victims and perpetrators and that experiences of domestic violence differ according to gender.

For example, post separation abuse is a very gendered affair (mostly male) Even when women do commit post separation abuse, it is rarely dangerous. It is still often criminal behaviour (usually criminal damage or harassing phone calls) and unacceptable. However post separation abuse committed by male abusers is extremely dangerous and often lethal.

If one takes a gender blind approach to domestic violence, this results in a waste of valuable resources and in some victims getting inaccurate advice. For victims with a female abuser, leaving is the single safest and most effective thing they can do to bring about an end to abuse. For victims with a male abuser, leaving is the single most dangerous thing they can do, so careful safety planning and confidential emergency housing (eg refuges) is essential.

I don't think that we do (heterosexual) male victims any favours by pretending that their needs and experiences are identical to those of (heterosexual) female victims - far from being more inclusive, it tends to marginalise them even more and make their needs invisible.

I believe it is also important to understand cultural narratives about gender to understand why so many women feel responsible for 'rescuing' abusive men. It also helps us to understand why so many male victims feel they 'should' protect their abusive female partner. The outcome is the same - that victims of both genders feel they are somehow betraying their abuser by speaking out / taking action but the predominant reasons given by victims as to why do differ according to gender and this is useful information when designing interventions.

saf, Sorry have I miscommunicated with you? Please can you ask any outstanding question again, ta.

i don't think so linerunner - i just asked what you meant by gendered sexuality as it rang a bell with some radfem stuff i'd been reading about sexuality itself being gendered as in the eroticising of power imbalances between the gender or exaggerated differences etc.

thought you answered.

I don't think I did answer in any depth, tbh, saf. I was a bit tired.

fair play. tired takes precedence.