Parenting a boy is a feminist minefield!

[MadameBoolala]

I am a feminist.

I have one child, a 4 year old boy, and mainly post in conception as we have been ttc number 2 for 2 years without success now. However I am venturing onto these boards as I feel negatively judged today by someone, and my parenting is being called into question.

I won't have time to post again until I come back from work tonight- but I'm wondering aloud today if it's easier to be a feminist and a parent of a girl...

He's only 4? I would imagine that things could get very tricky in the teenage years when porn and not brilliant attitudes to women are all over the place, but at 4?

What do people think you are doing wrong?

I have 2 girls but DD1 who is 4 has mainly friends who are boys so we have boys that age in the house quite a lot, I don't see where a parenting difference would come in. Will be interesting to talk this evening! You sound a bit upset though I hope you have a good day

4 boys and a 15mth old girl here, so far i havent found a difference between the sexes other than nappy changes, our parenting is the same, i do make sure my boys are involved in the housework etc and dd will be the same in that respect.

why were you criticised?

People tend to think you are doing the wrong thing if you don't insist on their liking trains and the colour blue, I suspect. I have been the subject of criticism from various quarters for not dressing my daughter in pink from the moment she was born, and I expect that sort of thing cuts both ways.

However, would be interested to hear what actually happened. My suspicion is that it's ultimately difficult to 'feministly' parent girls and boys in today's climate. So much gets taken out of your hands by market/social/institutional influences. I only have a girl, though, so I can't speak from actual experience of boy-raising.

I don't know Madame, I have a girl and two boys, all still little (6,5,2) and the dilemmas I've met with have mostly involved the girl and what to do about various bits of pinkification - eg someone buys your 4 year old girl a magazine with a lipstick, do you let her wear it? There are probably issues with either gender.
What happened to make you feel judged? We would be happy to talk about it when you get back from work.

I suspect if you are a feminist and a parent to only girl(s) it's easier to buy books with titles like "Girls are Best" (the content of which is fine) without having to pull a face; it does sometimes seem that anything that challenges accepted gender norms is explicitly marketed as being for girls, and then it's more difficult to sell boys on it even though they have no problem with the content/concepts. And when DS clearly wanted a Rapunzel doll I did find my feminist principles coming up against my "no Disney tat" principles.

I think it ultimately depends on the views of those around you. If you have someone around you, reinforcing gender stereotypes, then raising either gender is going to be hard work, from a feminist perspective.

Try not to take any notice of the naysayers. There will be someone to criticise you at every turn for your parenting; I know that only too well... I actually found the most relaxed I was as a parent was when my son's nursery teacher was an active feminist. It's only since he started at the last nursery he's started with the whole "blue is for boys" malarkey...Although, he's absolutely adamant that "Anyone can like pink"...

It's the teenage years I dread the most, but I think the more you weave a respect for women into your parenting, the less problems you'll have in those years.

oh yes, Girls Are Best, the trouble that has caused in our house

As you say, the content is fine, but dd took to waving it around at ds1 chanting 'Girls are best! Girls are best!' and it took a long time getting into their heads why the book had that title and that it is not acceptable to put down either gender.
Still it was a learning experience for them I suppose.... they are at least now very clear on the fact that feminism isn't about claiming girls are better but about equality. And there are quite a few grown-ups who have trouble taking that on board

The teenage years are hard if you are parenting a boy as many people start from the position of seeing them being a hormonally-driven, porn-loving,aggressive, insensitive and threatening alien.
So of course, all they want is to dominate, manipulate and be sexually inappropriate, then move on leaving your discarded girls in their wake and lumbering into the future as a dominant and unquestioning member of the patriarchy.
It was a lot less challenging raising my older female child as a feminist and a confident and able individual, there was a lot more support from other women who held feminist views and little conflict.
But a teenage boy? It is indeed a minefield

I think you get two things.

either your boy is rough and boyish and mean and trouble

or

he's a bit of a mummy's boy, a cissy and so on.

My son cried and I was asked 'is he not good with other children then?'
I really worry about bringing my son up surrounded by guns, porn, sport, sexism and all of that. He's only 14 months but already he has been called a mummy's boy in the nursery. Already I can see how people react differently to him and also how people just prefer girls because they can be dressed up in cute clothes and so on.

I've found it ok generally so far, but then my DS is only 5.

The biggest thing I've noticed is that since he started school there has been a lot more pressure for him to conform to boys activities and to segregate from girls. I am having daily conversations with him (and his twin sister) on why you don't have to choose your friends based on gender rather than whether or not you like them and challenging assumptions that boys can't do x or girls can't do y. I can see how stereotyped children could become in a very short space of time if they didn't have this balance given out at home. Fortunately, one of my DS's best friend has a mum who sprays cars for a living and who lets her son run around in skirts and nail varnish.

I spent a lot of time choosing my childcare and managed to find a very feminist CM and a wonderful nursery that really tried to subvert all this (plus I think toddlers are less susceptible anyway, so the differences aren't as marked), so it's only now I'm noticing it really.

I don't have any trouble from other people even though I probably do some eyebrow raising things in other people's eyes. Either they agree with me, they're too polite to comment or I look like I'll brook no argument.

I have one of each

So far, I am finding it much more difficult to parent the girl

Maybe because I am so fearful for her, because of my own experiences as a young woman so I can "identify" more

My boy, I dunno. I just kinda know he will be all right. He isn't a stereotypical "boyish" boy and his best friend is a girl. I have had no problem countering ignorant comments about "boys will be boys" about him.

I am, however, engaged in a running battle to counter the damaging messages my teenage dd is sujected to, and she causes me much more concern.

I only have one child, and he's only 19 months old - but I do find "he's such a boy!" and "That's boys for you!" frustrating, especially when these comments are linked to boisterous and slightly destructive behaviour. One of our regular playmates is a family with 2 DDs who climb and chuck and smash even more than him, so I have some good allies in the fight against gender stupidity, but also DS is a 19 month old who looks 2 1/2 because he's so big - and so I spend quite a bit of time telling him not to grab, not to shove, to be gentle - because he can very easily push someone his age over without meaning to. I get a bit "no, he's not rough, no, all boys aren't rough, he's just a bloody mustant!" .... I am starting to say "DS, if she doesn't like tickling/wrestling/you climbing on her, you must stop." Having a son has made me INTENSE about teaching bodily autonomy and bodily consent. I will wrestle him down to change him, sometimes, but if we're cuddling and he wants to get up, I let go at cone. I'm trying to teach him that he gets to say what happens to his body, and so does everyone else with theirs .

I find the way that clothing and culture encourages him to violence, selfishness, and cars/guitars (the sludgy miserable-civered clothing covered in cars/guitars, for a start) frustrating. Not as bad as fighting off the pink tat I'm sure, but mummy's little soldier? Not in this bloody house!

He has a doll and a pushchair, and I try hard to dress him in bright colours and anything but blue - but now I think of it, very little in the house is pink.

I've a 3 yr old son. I buy him dolls, pink wellies and stuff (his favourite colour atm - he doesn't go to nursery though and mostly socialise with girls and some boys who also have feminist parents. I think it's the flip side of avoiding pinkification of girls; include it for boys.

I've had the odd disparaging comment, e.g. I'm nor sure what that is - boy or girl? (I said, Yes) but I am still in the mainly-mixing-with-people-like-me phase - if he goes to nursery and/or school things may change.

THis is JUST the kind of discussion I was hoping for :) (had to leave work as I'm ill. If I am still here debating this in half an hour make me go to bed will you? )

I don't want to go into the details, only because I don't want to out myself and my friend, and we are good friends and will debate it out as we always do - but I'll try to explain...

We are both feminists (myself and my friend) - but she has a girl and I have a boy. They are of similar age. I think this morning I was feeling like it was just harder for me, because there are more pitfalls. I think as a woman with a daughter you're used to the territory. But with boys there's more to question and debate. And sometimes you just don't know what is the right and wrong thing. Because I never want to force my son down an alleyway because it fits my agenda. Does that make sense?

His favourite colour is green, he has no issues with pink and most of his friends are girls. I think he said something disparaging about girls once and both me and DH had a serious chat with him about it (not in a scary way, in a 'let's debate this' way) it was great. and I've heard nothing like it since. Early days though.

By the way AF, I know exactily what you mean about your daughter causing you more concern. What I mean when I say 'harder' is 'harder to make the right decisions as a feminist without stopping your child from having fun in the way that they want to'.

my ds is 11 and i think it can be hard to bring boys up, as i think it is the same with girls. Blue or pink seems to be they way people see children. However both my sons have been given the opportunities to be who they want to be. my ds aged 5 wears nail polish and i try and give positive messages about who they are and not to reinforce attitudes that put them in the box marked boy only. However they are boys and without my interference like boy things as well. I really think it is about balance and showing that all choices are ok whether it be a doll or a football. Most importantly they must respect everyone, boys and girls. Surely we want rounded boys, i want to do my best to ensure that for them.

My 2 year old DS loves to play with toy cuddly animals at toddler groups and often carries them around like a baby saying, "Ahhh, hug". I'm pregnant with DC2 so I'm not sure if he's picked up on me talking about babies or what, but generally he's a sensitive soul.

From a young age he's loved watching buses, trains and trucks in our town and loves driving past the local harbour and seeing boats dock. This isn't something I've pushed on him but something he's gravitated towards. Same goes for his love of playing with toy cars etc. At home we mainly have 'boyish' toys as that is what people buy him for Christmas and birthday's, but in toddler groups he'll play with anything.

I bought him a toy buggy recently and my (sexist arse of a man) FIL referred to it as a "wheelchair" as he didn't want to call it a buggy but I have no issue with him putting teddies and toys in and pushing it around.

At a toddler group recently I overheard two mums talk about a boy who was pushing a toy buggy and the said that they were worried he'd become gay from doing it. My face was

Sometimes I do feel it's a bit of a minefield being a parent, full stop, irrespective of gender of the child!

MadameBoolala, why should you have less influence over your child then say ad executives that will push certain products at your son because he's a boy, or the dominant culture which says that your son must behave a certain way because he is male?

Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by not wanting to force your son down an alleyway because it fits your agenda?

One of the loveliest images I saw was a little boy walking into school with his mum to drop of his older sister. He was tenderly clutching a barbie doll. He did this for about a year. I hope he looks back on that memory without embarassment.

I have a 10 year old son who is very feminist in his outlook, much more than his two older sisters. I wonder how he got that! Possibly due to his dad not being in the house for two years.

I had a boy friend in primary school who loved playing girl games. We enjoyed his company but he did get stick from his male peers. He didn't like football much. He's married now with children.

I'm currently reading Lise Eliot's Pink Brain, Blue Brain and finding a lot of interesting stuff about the similarities/differences between girls and boys. Eliot is fundamentally in agreement with Cordelia Fine in that male and female brains are essentially the same. However she believes there are a few things which are probably a result of hormonal differences which tend to predispose boys in some ways (higher activity rates, for example) and girls in others. However, she believes those differences are actually very small and are greatly exacerbated by socialisation/expectations etc.

It's certainly easier to get support to encourage a girl to break out of female stereotyping than it is to encourage boys to reach beyond their male stereotyping.
I heard a mother calling her two year-old DS a "wuss" the other day because he's currently going through a clingy phase. I can't help suspecting she would have been more tolerant of that type of behaviour from a girl (or, at least used different language to describe it). At young ages, people tend to look askance at boys who are more drawn to stereotypically feminine activities. Hogwash, of course, and incredibly limiting for boys.