misandry doesn't exist

[MitchierInge]

not in a sort of homologous (if that's the word?) way to misogyny anyway - society just isn't that evolved yet

"immortality" is listed in the OED. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist, either...

And it does matter what website it comes from. That's coming from a student. We're always taught that some sources are more reliable than others...

I don't think it's listed in the shorter Oxford, at least not until very recently, and if it was in the unabridged version, well they list pretty much every word that has ever been used in English.

I woudn't use any word to replace misandry with Sahara. Misandry doesn't exist in reality.

Women don't rape, abuse, batter men on a global scale. We haven't created a matriarchy that has placed men in second place for millennia. We don't have a social system that sees women as more important than men and holds men in contempt and views anything connected to men as second rate and unimportant. We don't use men as domestic sexual and reproductive appliances, appliances that every woman can own. We didn't create marriage laws that entitled us to ownership of the men we were married to, right down for it being legal to sexually assault them if we wanted to. We didn't do that to men, men did and do that to us. That's what misogyny is. Misandry - where is it?

"With respect, I don't understand why you get to chose the meaning of certain words, and ascribe your own personal views to them."

Yeah, we leave that up to misogynistic men.

The dictionary isn't the last word you know. It's created by human beings with an agenda too. Words have political power. If they didn't the woman-haters wouldn't be trying so hard to create the smokescreen of "misandry".

Google Books agrees with some of those sources.

When you say that 'The dictionary isn't the last word you know. It's created by human beings with an agenda too'. Do you mean that the people who create the Oxford dictionary are misogynists?

I'm saying the people have been pushing the term misogyny in the last 20 years are misogynists. What are you saying?

Anyway like I said, is the term listed in the Shorter Oxford? One of the interesting things about "misandry" is that it hasn't been listed in dictionaries until incredibly recently, and perhaps not even then.

The lexicographers clearly also haven't thought it was a valid term.

"pushing the term "misandry"

See, it's such a non word, I can't even type it out.

Anybody who is old enough to remember will know that this word was not in usage at all in the 70s and 80s, was only being bandied around by anti-feminists in the 90s when they were slagging off feminists, and has only been come to be seen as a legitimate concept as recently as a few years ago, by people who are pretty ignorant, mind you.

I don't quite understand what you mean with your first sentence. What am i saying about what?

I'm simply saying that the term 'misandry' exists in various dictionaries and the description allocated to it is 'hatred of women'. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, that is exactly what it means. I don't question other 'recent' word entries in the Oxford dictionary either, why would I?

Are you saying I'm 'pretty ignorant'? I believe that there are certain women who hate men, how can you say there aren't? If an individual woman professes to hate all men, doesn't that by definition make her a 'man hater'?

at all the muddleness* in recent posts.

If misandry exists, what is the effect?

*not in any dictionary

Is misandry listed in the most recent version Shorter Oxford?

"Are you saying I'm 'pretty ignorant'?"

No. Stop asking me "are you saying/do you mean, blah, blah, blah" because it seems an opportunity for you to write out misinterpretations of what I'm saying.

Just respond directly with your own opinion.

I am always amused that it is feminists who are accused of misandry (sometimes - and equally misguidedly - lesbians are also accused of hating men)

It's not feminists who think that men can't be equally good care-givers.

It's not feminists who think it's beyond men's ability to work out how to make a washing machine function.

It's not feminists who think that 'boys will be boys'

It's not feminists who think that men are so weak they can't control themselves when in the vacinity of a mini-skirt

And it's not feminists who think the world would be a better place if women were in charge.

In my experience, those who make sweeping negative statements about men are the least likely to be feminists.

Who cares about women who supposedly hate men anyway? Why are they so important to certain people? Why is it necessary to claim that they must exist? As if they could do any kind of harm to men whatsoever. I'll just repeat what I said before:

"Women don't rape, abuse, batter men on a global scale. We haven't created a matriarchy that has placed men in second place for millennia. We don't have a social system that sees women as more important than men and holds men in contempt and views anything connected to men as second rate and unimportant. We don't use men as domestic sexual and reproductive appliances, appliances that every woman can own. We didn't create marriage laws that entitled us to ownership of the men we were married to, right down for it being legal to sexually assault them if we wanted to. We didn't do that to men, men did and do that to us. That's what misogyny is. Misandry - where is it?"

If a woman hates all men, then yes, it makes her a man hater. However, I highly doubt she regularly carries out acts of violence and control against these men.

However, what our society has is a large number of men, and sometimes even women, acting in ways to oppress women. Not just sometimes, but consistently, and frequently.

We're America, Mark 2, but everyone's too busy going on about women who hate men...

I think you need to demonstrate the harm before you can call someone a hater. Because that's what woman hating is based on, that's what hatred of people of colour, or gay and lesbian people is based on. Serious and even lethal violence, used to terrorise people into submission.

^ Well said, Nyac

I don't know whether misandry is listed is listed in the most recent verion Shorter Oxford.

I'm not looking for a way to misinterpret your words, what on earth makes you think I'm doing that? I just wanted clarification, so I have a full understanding. That's all.

I think someone can hate without causing harm.

Like I said who cares about "man-hating" when woman hating causes real and serious harm to women and girls.

There are a 100 million missing women and girls in India and China for example because they are aborted or killed as babies because they are female.

They didn't even get the chance to grow up to be "man-haters", the women haters made sure of that.

Yes, I agree, femicide is atrocious, and it needs dealing with by the governments in those countries, the repercussions of femicide is beginning to be felt by those countries. I don't think that should mean that we don't care if a man is subjected to poor treatment. Would you hold the same view if it was your brother or son?

Good grief - "feminicide is atrocious" but whataboutthemenz? It's like it just doesn't touch you.

Where in the world is there genocide against males because they are males.

Are 2 men a week murdered by their current or former partner where you live, Sahara?

2 women a week are murdered in the UK, by a current or former partner. Yet, lets ask about the men, again. Because, you know, us women are such a great threat towards them.

Do the men you know regularly get emails telling them how to keep safe whilst out and about?

Because the women I know do.

Do the men you know get subjected to stricter treatment from their parents, under the basis they need protecting?

I've only ever known that to be the case towards a woman.

Are men having their reproductive rights, forced to keep unwanted pregnancies where you live, Sahara?

I have at least three friends living in places where they would struggle to get a termination, if needed. A further five living in the US, where the anti-abortion campaigners are predominantly men.

Yet we need to worry about how we're treating men? Really?

I just wanted to clarify some muddled wording in my previous post:

OLD
Sex without consent is rape and anyone who argues that it's ok to have sex with a woman is not rape is pretty likely to be a woman hater.

NEW
Sex without consent is rape and anyone who argues that it's ok to have sex with a woman WITHOUT HER CONSENT, AND THAT THIS is not rape is pretty likely to be a woman hater.

Lilly (two l's for the unwary), why would you post men's rights propaganda in Mumsnet's women's rights section?

As for calling me a bully - whatever.

I'm not reporting it because Mumsnet don't appear to delete these sorts of attacks anymore.