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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

anyone feel uncomfortable about Military Wives Choir?

263 replies

Bennifer · 19/12/2011 13:20

That?s it really. Although I like the idea that the wives are raising money for charity ~(and that we won't have an X factor number 1), there?s something a little unsettling about the military wives angle I can?t quite put my finger on. Am I overthinking this?

OP posts:
stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:27

Although I admit it's not so catchy!

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/12/2011 14:28

I'm with stubborn!

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:29

I must admit though, I do love the word "strumpet".

In an ironic sense, natch.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/12/2011 14:29

So do I! Also 'floozy'.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:31

I think what mudandglitter means to say is that kate middleton is a better role model for girls than women working in the "glamour" or sex industry, making money form displaying or otherwise selling their bodies.

Wink
SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:31

harlot is a good one
Strumpet is great

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:32

That just turns it into a very good example of the madonna/ whore complex.

meditrina · 19/12/2011 14:33

How about classic "whores de combat"?

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:34

True

Although I'd rather be in kate middleton's shoes than working on a sex line.

Although the best shoes of all are obviously ones that you have bought yourself as you are independently wealthy and don't have to take your clothes off for anyone. Or something Grin

QuickLookBusy · 19/12/2011 14:35

The point is this whole thing was done for a TV programme.

The choir was set up inorder to learn to sing and the final episode was a concert for the choir members' partners.

Hence the name "Military Wives" sums up the point of the programme.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:35

Interestingly we know nothing of the women in the choir, apart from that they are married. Or in fact, not married. So basically that they are going out with military types. They could be the most appalling role models for all anyone knows.

MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:36

Thanks SQ! I meant that Kate Middleton comes across as down to earth and I can't quite think of the word but classy will have to do!
All I really meant was I'd rather have my daughter turn out like Kate even though as far as I know she doesn't earn her own money etc than turn out like Katie Price who yes, has made a fortune but repulses me for many reasons.

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:37

Maybe they should start up a female serving soldier's choir and call it that? In an- "I-can-afford-to-be-ironic-because-I have-a-big-gun-and-know-how-to-use-it" kind of way?

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:38

Ahem, my last thread was in response to meditrina's. In case you thought I'd entirely lost the plot...

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:39

Post, I mean.

skrumle · 19/12/2011 15:31

SQ actually, having not watched the programme but having seen brief snippets on other shows, the soloist/featured "wife" previously served in the military herself and is heavily tattooed - leading to much daily-mail-disapproval...

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 15:32

Oooooooooh that's interesting. Must have been a tough one for the DM I imagine their default position is armed forces and their families = jolly good stuff.

yellowraincoat · 19/12/2011 15:34

Yeah, I've read a lot of comments on the DM website (why do I do it to myself?) about her tattoos.

I didn't know she used to be in the military though.

skrumle · 19/12/2011 15:35

sorry - should have been clearer, it was the DM readers' comments that went along the lines of "should have covered herself from head to toe, that's just not naice" Wink

think the DM stuck with generic "our brave boys and girls" tone.

madwomanintheattic · 19/12/2011 15:48

aw, don't lure me back in when i'm on my mn holiday.

can't comment at all on the choir or the song, as i haven't heard it, and have only seen it discussed on here.

but i just wanted to point out that some mn feminists are military 'wives'. Grin

the two positions aren't mutually exclusive. Grin

Lexilicious · 19/12/2011 16:06

It's a fact of life that the role of 'military spouse' is usually very much an adjunct to the 'head of the family'. It's visibly out of step with how many other people live their lives now, which has been recognised as an issue, but that's not to say it's "wrong". It's difficult however to find ways that partners of military personnel can themselves have a career when the demands of the military half of the couple are so unpredictable, involve moving around every couple of years, off for six months at a time on one of Her Majesty's Holidays (tm)...

They just happen to mostly be women in this case, which wasn't (initially I think) set up at all to be a TV series with a spin-off single, it was a fly on the wall (ish) reality/documentary. It was a lovely, sweet three part series which grew legs and arms.

I can't see a big feminist issue in this, except to say that I've (formerly) been a woman in the army for a short while, and I still know a lot of women in the forces. The character types they tend to have as partners are not often the SAHP / significantly lesser earner / content with being defined as "husband of...". I also know lots of men in the forces who have wives/partners with "proper" careers themselves, who therefore don't define themselves as 'wife of', either.

I expect that the proportion of military families who rely on a single/main income is probably higher than in society at large, and it would follow that as there are more men in the military those "spouses of..." are largely going to be female, but it is by no means the only way that military families work. I think the group who are entitled to be most narked with the (well-meaning, but fairly one-dimensional) characterisation of the programme/song publicity are military wives with jobs who don't live on a camp, because I bet a few of them are getting asked 'are you going to join if they set one up where you are?', and having to explain it's not compulsory to live in tied housing and take a full part in the military family thing.

Avantia · 19/12/2011 16:42

Military Wives - well their husbands or partners that are in the Military - its more than just a name - it is for the most a way of life.

I dont actually care what the Choir was called it was about these women who are often left at home for 6 months keeping it all together not knowing whether their partner was going to be home - or when there was a communication ban was it because it was their partner that was killed .

It brought to attention the families of the Miliatry that are left at home whilst the military personnel mainly get the media attention.

These women shown on the programme and featured in the 'Wives Choir ' have more balls than many feminists who overthink matters.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 19/12/2011 16:46

God - I have been asked if I am going to join a choir / if I have been asked to join a choir.

I am a military wife.

I earn more, am out of the house longer than DH (ATM), have a career. But none of that exists as far as the military are concerned. I am just his dependent. I can't have an extra bedroom for an au pair as my job is irrelevent (they are moving his job and changing his hours so we will need an au pair). Oh, and they still haven't told us where we will be living (can't afford to rent in this area).

The being a military wife does (usually) kind of define your experience of housing and moving and disruption to your children's education.

And they have that experience mostly in common.

I don't like the name as it reminds me that is how the military actually view me - an irrelevence.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/12/2011 16:49

'feminists who overthink matters'.

Yes, you're right. From now on I shall try my best to always underthink.

Norma, your post is very interesting. It's good to hear your perspective.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 16:50

Hmm I think littlestclanger's post "It's all related to the thing of men being brave by doing dangerous things, while female bravery and courage come from sitting patiently while their partner does the dangerous stuff.

DH used to have a ridiculously dangerous job. That did not make me courageous in any way related to that, but no-one would ever suggest that DH was brave for having a partner who handled snarly animals as part of her job."

is pertinent to the "balls" comment.