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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

anyone feel uncomfortable about Military Wives Choir?

263 replies

Bennifer · 19/12/2011 13:20

That?s it really. Although I like the idea that the wives are raising money for charity ~(and that we won't have an X factor number 1), there?s something a little unsettling about the military wives angle I can?t quite put my finger on. Am I overthinking this?

OP posts:
MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:05

Why isn't Kate a good role model? She doesn't dress like a slut, supports her husband as I'm sure he supported her whilst she was studying/working. All she's done is happen to marry into the royal family

yellowraincoat · 19/12/2011 14:07

I don't only like debates where people agree with me, no. I do tend to like debates where people don't make a joke of it though. I suppose that's because I'm a humourless feminist.

Yes, I agree with you Bennifer. It's almost becoming acceptable to be defined solely as your role as wife.

Original poster
Bennifer · 19/12/2011 14:07

maybe bringing Kate into it was a bad move - I'm sure she's lovely.

OP posts:
MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:08

Sorry I only commented as it came across that you were devaluing her worth as a woman because she happened to get married.

yellowraincoat · 19/12/2011 14:08

MudAndGlitter. Why does it matter how she dresses? Why is that important? She knows she can never dress like a "slut" ever again. What if she wants to?

MmeLindor. · 19/12/2011 14:09

Well, SQ. I do have a DH and we live in Geneva. Part of my social life is to out with the wives and girlfriends of DH's colleagues, simply because for a lot of the expat wives, it is the only point of contact they have here.

The name of our group: [DH's Company] Wives.

I don't only see myself as a [DHC] Wife though and don't have a problem with the name.

It is like saying School Mums. Or Mumsnet Friends.

The definition of a group coming from where you met.

Deliaskis · 19/12/2011 14:10

I think what you mean OP, is that the name defines them solely by their relationship to men, rather than as individuals in their own right? I can see your point, and it briefly crossed my mind a few weeks ago. It's difficult with things like this where their relationship to the men (be it wife or girlfriend, and I don't think the distinction is that important in the context of the OP or the choir) in their lives is their unifying factor, that is what picks them out from any other bunch of women singing.

It doesn't in this instance make me uneasy though, and I think my reason is this...sometimes, you just have to take things at face value, and not assume that anybody is trying to demean or oppress somebody else at every opportunity. They are a group of women who actually are wives or girlfriends of the military, and they have got together to sing, they chose their name. I would also imagine that (although have no first hand knowledge) their shared experiences as OH's of military men is one of the things that unifies them, so to be defined by this is for them probably not a negative thing.

So I think I get your point, but on this occasion, I don't think it's sinister.

D

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/12/2011 14:10

I agree with you, Bennifer. Your point about the year being bookended by a wives' choir and a new sleb/'role model' in the form of someone whose job is to turn up at things, look good and have all her hair/clothes/make-up choices picked over is a realyl good one. I also think TheSmallClanger expresses very well the faint feminist unease that I feel but wasn't as able to articulate:

the "men go out and do, women keep the home fires burning" implications. It's all related to the thing of men being brave by doing dangerous things, while female bravery and courage come from sitting patiently while their partner does the dangerous stuff.

And I think 'The Chivenor Choir' would be a great name for them.

MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:11

Well I'm sure she's a much better role model than the Ecclestone girl!
If she went out dressed as a slut then you're saying you wouldn't be going on about how she feels she has to dress like that to get attention from men?

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/12/2011 14:11

Christ. 'doesn't dress like a slut'??? Shock

yellowraincoat · 19/12/2011 14:12

Honestly, I don't think the name is that bad. Yes, it defines them as wives, but in this situation that's what they are (mostly; some are partners too).

It bothers me more that their whole lives are about being wives. And that no one ever seems to create an expats husbands group or a military husband group. Unless anyone would care to enlighten me?

Pootles2010 · 19/12/2011 14:12

I can't say I watched it, so may be totally wrong here. Someone said earlier they went to a base where it was mainly marines (who I'm guessing are exclusively male?), I think maybe they should have gone to a more mixed base tbh. It just seems to be sticking with same old stereotypes - men are brave and go to war, women stay at home.

yellowraincoat · 19/12/2011 14:14

I said upthread that I dress "like a slut" MudAndGlitter. I don't feel like I need to wear a knee-length dress to get respect, I feel like I should be grated that respect whatever I'm wearing.

meditrina · 19/12/2011 14:14

They were brought together for the Festival of Remembrance, so a definition in terms of the military was appropriate.

That the focus has continued beyond this is, I suppose a reflection of the public welcome.

It never occurred to me to think that "military wife" was either a comprehensive or a limiting description.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/12/2011 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:18

What was wrong with Kate was the way the media presented her, and the wedding, and the whole dress thing was a bit odd. She comes across very well and what I have seen of her is fine.

I am not sure what the dressing as a slut thing has to do with anything either. Seems a bit random.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:19

" I think it the identification of 'wives' as a possessive. I think the name was chosen for sentimentality and commercability. I do think an alternative name would have been less, well, something or other; can't decide quite what."

Yes.

SardineQueen · 19/12/2011 14:20

Maybe we need to consider the idea that MN feminists are not the target audience for this record!

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:22

It makes me feel uncomfortable too. I comforted myself with the supposition that perhaps some of them are in same-sex marriages with serving female soldiers Smile.

I've been playing with the idea of how the reverse would look - how does a choir called "Midwives' Husbands" (oh no, alone on Christmas Day, she's attending a home birth) sound?

(waits for hell to freeze over).

MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:23

I'm sorry doesn't dress trampy then. And I never said short skirts were slutty.

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:25

Ohhh...."trampy". That's OK then....[hmmm]

AliBellandthe40jingles · 19/12/2011 14:25

But it isn't just a Chivenor choir, there are a load of them from Plymouth as well.

We have to assume that the women in the choir are happy (for this portion of their lives) to be defined as military wives otherwise they wouldn't be involved with it.

MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:25

What word would you use then?

MudAndGlitter · 19/12/2011 14:26

Strumpet?

stubbornstains · 19/12/2011 14:26

How about...."dressing how you want to be dressed and not getting judged for it?"