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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:36

Meant to say ... we had someone's teenage son on here the other day asking about his homework, so there is honestly no reason to be shy of advancing an opinion!

MillyR · 12/12/2011 15:36

I think 'it is my body' is the basic argument.

Using self harm as an analogy to prove this argument wrong is ridiculous.

People are allowed to deliberately self harm without interference from the state. In fact, then can get state funded counselling aimed at reducing the risks to themselves while self harming, not aimed at ending the self harm.

Because it is recognised in law that we do have a right to our own bodies.

Deliberate self harm is not a mental health condition; you cannot be sectioned under the mental health act solely for self harming. You would have to be found to have depression or another condition that could impair your judgement.

Sorry to go off topic, I just wanted to pick up on this misunderstanding about the legal status of self harm.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:38

Thanks Milly, I didn't know that and it makes things clearer.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:39

I think you've misunderstood the thread... I'm not after a poll. Do you want to start a poll though? You seem to get hooked on that one. I'm not a data collection "agent" selling my poll results to some group for 13 credits. Though there is probably money in that... Maybe mumsnet should do polls. Do you think it would be helpful? I get the impression you've given it a lot of thought.

Haha I didn't realise that constitutes for a lot here. You should see the facebook groups, everyone is very worried about offending the super sensitive.

OP posts:
MooncupGoddess · 12/12/2011 15:40

Well, Drowz0r, you now know, if you didn't already, that of your sample of MN feminists the vast majority are pro-choice.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:41

Lol teenage son? Really? I thought there was an age limit to the forum? Little worrying I suppose, considering the strength in some replies.

OP posts:
Get0rf · 12/12/2011 15:43

I am laughing at femanism and termanology Grin

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:43

Are you ok Drowz0r? Confused

Honestly ... no-one is going to mind if you have something to say, but this 'I want to ask this ... but no, I want to ask that ... ' posting is rather strange. If you're finding it all too much, just take a breath and come back later, ok? Or you could start another thread where you set out a bit more in your OP about what you're trying to say.

Btw, I do understand it is hard when you are struggling with other things (like you mentioned on the other thread), so please don't feel you can't take your time to work out what you think and what you actually want to talk about. It'll all make much more sense if you draft out each post slowly and let us know what you are trying to say.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:43

Really Milly? Hmm. I actually really self harm wasn't really allowed like that. Tought it was like suicide...

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:45

Oh, honey.

Look, if you self harm this is honestly not the place. We can talk but we are not professionals, and you need to talk to someone.

Pootles2010 · 12/12/2011 15:47

Well no, suicide tends to be a little more... permanent. I imagine if you were self harming to the point where they thought you'd do yourself real damage then they'd section you though.

MillyR · 12/12/2011 15:47

I am absolutely sure about the self harm. It is not classified in itself as a mental health condition. I used to work with a client group who included DSH individuals and have done training courses on it.

In fact it would be very sexist (as most DSH people are female) for the state to interfere in it when there are activities which carry a far greater risk which are carried out mostly by men, that the state does not interfere in.

MooncupGoddess · 12/12/2011 15:49

You're so caring, LRD :)

Suicide (and attempted suicide) has not been a crime in the UK since the 1961 Suicide Act.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:49

I cannot be the only person who is concerned for the OP here. I don't know what is going on but he is clearly confused and unable to post coherently in this state.

Personally, I'm going to stop posting as I think he'll just get more tangled up. The subject can be an interesting discussion but I think probably not on this thread!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:50

mooncup - thanks, but no need to say so. I'm sure we all care about people getting upset on here and want to avoid anyone getting wound up.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:53

That could be a good idea Dragon. I could start the thread over again I suppose. Perhaps less pro-life and pro-choice titled as that seemed to offend. It'll need a title... I'mahaveaponder.

The posting was actually the same question but re-phased as some seemed to operate on a slightly different level. Kinda goes back to the "Say one thing, mean something else and taken entirely differently" - I guess you've seen a real time demonstration of that now though eh?

(really thought self-harm* was meant to be in there, rushing again, I don't self harm :P)

Well I stand corrected on the self harm perspective at least, clearly I need to do some reading there. tyvm Milly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:56

Probably if I avoided using words like poll it would help those more down on your level. Keep it a simple question that can't be confused, something like "What are your thoughts on abortion and why?"

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:56

Whew, I am glad that was a typo!

It sounds like a good idea to take a step back and ponder. I find one of the best ways is to do some research, read a few books, draft something maybe in Microsoft, then you can really feel confident that what you post is saying what you meant it to say .. it's one of those skills that takes a bit of practice IME! We still run courses on how to communicate coherently for a lot of students and some people just find it tougher than others ... then you add in the emotional stuff and it's no wonder it ends up getting a bit tangled up!

silentcatastrophe · 12/12/2011 15:57

Women will seek abortions whether or not they are legal. Who wants to go back to the days of coathangers and gin? Who wants children who really are not wanted by their parents?
Why do females get the blame for abortion when men cheer for war?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:59

Cross-post - yes, I think simple questions are best. A lot of us forget that not everyone is very comfortable with the terminology (as you mentioned struggling with it), and not everyone has quite mastered the difficulties of constructing an argument.

I do this with a lot of GCSE students and you would be surprised how hard they find it - it really is not easy, and of course if you miss out on the skill early on, it's quite tricky catching up.

But don't worry, you will get there.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:00

Btw ... just another point to keep in mind (I know it's been made a few times before but when you're upset/concentrating I'm sure it's hard to keep track) ... do remember that if you ask a question, it's polite to give your own thoughts and reasons first. Smile

blackcurrants · 12/12/2011 16:05

there is so much wonderful Polite And Reasonable Discussion on this thread, it is great to see.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 16:05

Lol sorry to worry you.

Hah, I'm a bit over-geeked for microsoft products but I understand what you're saying. It's good to see so many active users though, a handful of them even want to discuss things with new users or people with different views. You do courses? It'd be great to see them. I deliver training on that subject! Perhaps I could look over them to see how it's expected to to delivered here. It's a shame I can't do certain words in colour to really help you guys see the enphersis. Picture linking may help too. That always helps on forums. I hope you can deal with just bold and italics :P

I agree, we could probably end the emotional reactions then too.

OP posts:
cuibono · 12/12/2011 16:08

not exactly opaque is it?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 16:09

You want a course?

I can certainly put you in touch if you are really interested - are you looking for GCSE English then? That is what I tutor some of the time. Other than that I do undergrad English but I expect that's a bit specialized for what you're wanting if you're more of a web guy! Grin

If you often find yourself wanting to use colour instead of plain text, it may be worth getting yourself assessed for dyslexia. I'm dyslexic myself, and before I learned to deal with it I was very incoherent in writing (when I was a child really), but you sound very classically dyslexic. It is quite common in people who are drawn to computer science, too - it might explain why you ended up having to do more work than most of your coursemates on the degree, too. Often people struggle a lot. But there is help out there.