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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Pro-life / Pro-choice

335 replies

Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 13:37

Admittedly usually something argued accross the atlantic than in the UK anymore... I am curious to know how it ranges in the forum.

Anyone here pro-life or pro-choice? Any specific reason?

OP posts:
Mollified · 12/12/2011 14:57

I agree that pro choice is the best position on the whole for all of the reasons that have been pointed out however I don't agree that it should be pro easy choice. I know women who have deeply regretted their choice as well as women who have rejoiced that they live in a country where they are free to make that choice. Coming from Ireland I understand the incredible difficulties that women have had to go through in order to take the abortion choice - very few of these women regret it.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 14:58

Suppose I'll stick to trusting spellcheck then!

Butyes, the point indeed. Well, I find a lot of pro-lifers don't actually intend to call pro-choice people murders. I mean, I certinaly don't think of all you guys as big time baby killers. That's just crazy. Although some believe a fetus is alive, and pro-choice is actually the taking of a life, so pro-life being accurate there, in their own belief I suppose.

I've actually found the vast majority of people don't say exactly what they mean. Or rather, what they mean is one thing, what they say is something else and what is heard is different entirely. It used to frustrate me to no end... I suppose we have different walks of life there.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:00

I hope you don't mind me saying, but you seem very incoherent and I can't help suspecting there is more to this than you say in your OP? No need to answer if you don't want to, but if you are actually in the middle of an upsetting situation, we might be more able to understand where you're coming from if you let us know.

SinicalSanta · 12/12/2011 15:00

of course there are consequences to abortion.
there are consequences to everything.
It's up to an individual to decide whether to take them on or not.

I do struggle with the Rights of the Unborn though. I don't think the right of a woman to avoid a minor inconvenience trumps the foetus right to life.
But that throws up other questions, such as what is 'minor', who decides, who would be so frivolous anyway. On balance seeing as how no one would agree, the most qualified person to decide is the woman herself.

suzikettles · 12/12/2011 15:03

Well, it depends on so many factors, many of them hidden, as to whether it's an easy choice or not, and an easy procedure or not.

I had a friend who knew the day she got the positive test (the day her period was due - she'd been on antibiotics and knew there was a chance the MAP might have failed) that she wanted an abortion. Her GP delayed and delayed without being explicit about the fact that he was very pro life, and she was nearly 12 weeks before she actually was able to have the operation.

And yet, she didn't change her mind. She just got more and more stressed, more and more upset, more and more sick and tired.

It seems so cruel to make a woman jump through hoops when she's sure in her own mind that she doesn't want to be pregnant. For what? To punish her? Do you have to suffer a certain amount for society to deem it hard enough and therefore permissable?

Trills · 12/12/2011 15:04

I am very much pro making it so that a woman who might want a baby but thinks that the circumstances are not right is supported and helped so that she can have the baby if she wants to (not socially ostracised, financially helped out, etc).

But a woman who does not want a baby should be able to become unpregnant quickly and easily and safely without judgement.

slug · 12/12/2011 15:05

"Pro-Life" is most definitely a tasteless term for those who would prefer to let a woman bleed to death than perform a life saving abortion

fridakahlo · 12/12/2011 15:07

Mollified, it is never an easy choice but for so many different reasons can be the right choice. In my opinion I would rather a thousand abortions than to see one child born and live a life of misery and neglect because his/her mother was not allowed to choose.

Trills · 12/12/2011 15:07

I think that's a pretty extreme example. I believe there to be plenty of people who would call themselves pro-life but would support an abortion where the mother's health was at risk.

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:08

Incoherent? Haha yeah well that was the inital idea. Though I was asked my stance right off the bat. I find if you don't give people a target, they're less likely to hit you. For instance, if I say "I'm 100% pro-life, tell me why you're all pro-choice" it becomes a you vs me arguement and I like to think no one wants that. Similarly if I express I'm pro-choice, people assume we're playing for the same team. I try not to show my stance because that way people are more often willing to express their own opinion, openly, rather than defensively. Although, in general terms I lean towards pro-life... or pro-birth.. or... whatever we're calling it now.

Also don't worry about a risk of offending me. I won't start balling my eyes out if you say "I don't understand what you just said. It makes no sense".

OP posts:
alexpolismum · 12/12/2011 15:08

exactly, slug.

"pro-life" rarely seems to extend to the mother's life, or indeed to the baby's life after birth, if it is to live in poverty.

MrsMicawber · 12/12/2011 15:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SinicalSanta · 12/12/2011 15:10

Well tell us your reasons then as we've explained ours to you.

perceptionreality · 12/12/2011 15:11

I'm definitely pro-choice but what's right for one woman is so different from what's right for another and I think people should e counselled on abortion as individuals. I had a baby in circumstances so difficult a lot of people on the outside couldn't understand why I didn't have an abortion. But for me it was the right thing to do to have her. For another woman it may have been entirely different.

MrsMicawber · 12/12/2011 15:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:11

Eh?

I'm sorry, I don't follow. You wanted to be incoherent in case someone hit you? You are surprised to be asked your opinion?

I don't understand what you're trying to tell us. It's (obviously, I would have thought), very rude to try to stir up a debate without advancing your own opinion ... that is actually known as 'trolling' on the internet, when you disguise yourself by using a persona to stir up arguments. It's generally considered bad form. I take it you don't use discussion forums much?

Mollified · 12/12/2011 15:17

I wonder if the OP is trying to establish what their opinion actually is by getting us to explain our points of view?

SinicalSanta · 12/12/2011 15:19

s/he already said they're prolife.

I'd like them to explain their reasoning, as a response to ours.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 12/12/2011 15:21

Well thanks for all your ramblings OP. You've certainly helped advance the argument and my understanding on this subject.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:21

Yes, I wondered that Molli. He sounds very uncertain, which is fair enough, but also surprised/hurt to be asked what he thinks and why.

It's quite unusual and makes me wonder what's going on in his life. None of my business I know, but when you have a young man who's getting upset about abortion, obviously well outside his comfort zone and wanting advice, it's natural to be concerned for him, I think.

Matronalia · 12/12/2011 15:28

I am pro-choice.

Not every woman wants to nuture children, not every woman can cope with an unplanned pregnancy or feels that she could love an unwanted child no matter what, not every mother feels that she wants more children to be responsible for.

To say that women shouldn't get abortions smacks of 'women who enjoy sex are bad' and 'women are lovely, soft, gentle nurturing beings who love children no matter what', conveniently stereotyping and ignoring women who do find motherhood hard and would struggle with a baby.

I prefer to see each woman as an individual and if they don't want to carry that child then they shouldn't have to resort to a backroom abortion. Women have always sought abortion, I don't think that will ever change and I would rather they had clean, safe services.

I am eternally grateful for the services we have in the UK. I had a termination of my third child within five days of a positive test. I didn't want to be a mother again and I have no regret. Any sadness I have is due to being unexpectedly pregnant, not having had an abortion. It was hard but being responsible for another baby would have been even harder. It was hard enough dealing with those pregnancy symptoms for the days I did, I have no idea how I would have coped with waiting longer.

Mollified · 12/12/2011 15:30

True LRD this is probably not the best place though. And this subject does tend to raise some extreme arguments. IMO abortion is an extremely difficult choice and is made in very personal circumstances. I chose not, others will choose to. I do think that there is more to it than 'Its my body' but I haven't managed to formulate why yet...I'll get there

Prolesworth · 12/12/2011 15:31

I'm pro-choice but I see abortion as an unfortunate necessity and mandatory PIV as the real problem.

HTH Xmas Grin

Original poster
Drowz0r · 12/12/2011 15:31

Mmmm I'm not really trying to tell you anything, more bleeding the information from you.

But I apologise if you feel hurt. Often forums, polls, questions and people in general ask you a question and don't always go into the history of their own belief too. It's a good way of finding the social norm - and it's often to get an honest answer. Simple psychology, my answer augments yours.

And lol no, trolling is very much not that. There are a variety of degrees to trolling, the majority of which are obvious, random and off-subject abuse. Do you get a lot of Trolls here? Because there seems to be a bit of paranoia surrounding it. Though I suppose understandable as femanism is an easy target for them - though I'm going wildly off topic here.

Actually I've never had a personal problem with abortion. I suppose I'm quite lucky. Maybe that's why I lean towards pro-life? I've never had a problem with atheism, religion, evolution... but I talk on forums about those too :)

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/12/2011 15:34

I think you're a bit confused.

If you want to do a poll, I think you need to phrase it differently... what we're doing here is discussing opinions, which aren't 'information', so may not be the best way to help you if all of this is bothering you.

Btw, you don't need to keep apologizing - I can imagine it feels a bit nervy posting when you're unsure of what you think but honestly, people do it all the time, you're nothing new.