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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Wellbeing Thread - who's in?

543 replies

AnonWasAWoman · 01/11/2011 13:29

This is a sort of ?gap in the market? thread really, forgive the rotten title. I was thinking about women and wellbeing and a possible feminist slant on what I feel the beauty industry has colonised.

If I try to find a threads, or a magazine articles, about women?s wellbeing and health I can guarantee half of them will be written in what comes across to me as doublethink: ?you need to feel good about your body, so first you must wage war upon it for a woman?s body is naturally hideously ugly!?. This just makes me sad. So do diluted versions ? the kind of discussions or groups where participants begin with a focus on health, but gradually shift to ?what can you do to look good?, which ? well, just makes me feel ugly if I don?t do those things (And, ah, angry that some people think women should have to!).

It really worries me how, as women, health and beauty are constantly conflated, and there?s an ever-increasing list of treatments that begin as luxurious pampering, then quickly come to be essential ?maintenance? or even basic ?hygiene?. It?s taken that a sign of healthy self-confidence and body confidence is to buy into these ideas about what to do with our time and money and bodies. I?m sure there?s a spectrum of views among feminists as to what we feel is right for us and what?s not, and I don?t want to get into that because I think it?s the least interesting bit of the debate. So I?m not trying to start yet another ?do you wax your fanjo fur? thread ? interesting as they are ?!

I am sure there is a way to resist gendered body care/products without in any way denigrating or ignoring the female body. I bet some of you are brilliant at this and the Resisting Femininity threads were great for showing me the way. But I also want to replace the things I?m resisting, not just get rid of all focus on my body. My mum can as close as can be to this ? everything ?gendered? for women?s bodies, from women?s anti-perspirant, to shaving equipment, to perfume and cosmetics, came under the same heading of ?disgusting things?. In retrospect I find this quite disturbing and not remotely feminist. I am sure I would have been a happier and better-adjusted teenager if I?d not had to sneak off to buy deodorant and nick my dad?s used disposables (I didn?t know any better). If as an adult woman I want to do without any of this stuff, that?s fine ? but I certainly don?t want to feel it?s the only option, or that being a feminist has to mean focusing on the mind and forgetting about the body.

So what I would like to do is to try to hammer out a sense of what you do (if anything) to replace or contrast with what we?re offered by society in terms of caring for your body. So I thought maybe it?d be nice to have a sort of wellbeing thread on here, where we can do all the healthy stuff you hope for on a ?diet? thread (and don?t IME get), and we can do all the ?taking time for myself? stuff that the beauty industry has colonised and distorted, but we can also maybe chat about how to feel better about our bodies, instead of how to make them look better.

So, here?s my list (some, obviously, drawn from a certain S&B thread!). They?re what I?ll hope to do, not what I promise to do! Grin

  • I?m going to try to go for a walk at least twice a week, even if it?s just half an hour. And I?m going to take my camera so I don?t end up thinking about work the whole time!
  • I?m going to try to eat two different kinds of fruit/veg (I get stuck on apples galore)
  • I?ll try to cut my coffee intake
  • I?ll try to take 15 minutes before I go to bed to think about something that is not work, or chatting on MN (!), or planning food shopping or whatever
  • I?m going to try to make proper breakfast every day
  • Go to bed early one night per week
  • Ration my (awful) snickers habit! I have eaten three snickers ice-cream bars this morning and it is Not good.
  • (You can laugh here) I?m going to do some pelvic floor exercises every week ? I always forget and I imagine I?ll be glad of them later on!

Please add in suggestions if you have them or say if you think I ought to change my mind about any of these.

OP posts:
ComradeJing · 16/11/2011 21:24

Lerkins? Sounds a bit pervy :o

I've been up since 4 trying to get dd back to sleep. It's 5:20 now and I'm blardy tired. I've just got to deal with her sleep now. I've realized that with poor sleep absolutely everything is effected (affected?). My skin is shit, I can't be bothered to work out or go for a walk, I'm a poorer mother, I make bad food choices, I dont socialize with friends or even DH when he gets home from work.

Right, she's just gone down. Going to try and get another hour in.

Jacksmania · 16/11/2011 21:36

Did anyone call for a chiropractor?

At your service :)

(too bad I don't live close to any of you :()

TheButterflyEffect · 16/11/2011 21:39

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Jacksmania · 16/11/2011 21:40

My leg hair, very oddly, stopped growing when I was pregnant, and hasn't really ever grown much since. To make up for this, however, I have one super-long extra thick eyebrow hair in the middle of each eyebrow. If I let them, they grow so long that they now outward and can be seen from the side. Hmm

Don't I sound attractive :o

TheButterflyEffect · 16/11/2011 21:56

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ElderberrySyrup · 16/11/2011 22:02

yes, mine is at the top of my right arm.
Maybe everyone really does have one. That could be a great scientific discovery that the patriarchal science establishment has never made because they've never looked.

TheButterflyEffect · 16/11/2011 22:08

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/11/2011 22:09

Oh, I win the 'weirdo hair' thing. I have a super long, pure white hair that grows ... right in the middle of my cleavage. Because it is pure white I seldom notice it until the light catches it and I realize I have it dangling attractively over my top button in a come-hither fashion.

It's well sexy.

Jing, I hope you get some sleep ... wish we were close enough to do a bit of babysitting for you. Sad

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/11/2011 22:10

That was a brilliant cross-post. So is my soul in a strand of boob-hair? What does that say about me really? Confused

TheButterflyEffect · 16/11/2011 22:11

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/11/2011 22:14

It is. This could be like a secret feminist handshake, couldn't it? We'd all turn up to a meet brandishing rogue long hairs.

ElderberrySyrup · 16/11/2011 22:15

I've just looked it up in The Golden Bough.
Don't pull it out! Shock You will grow weak and timid.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 16/11/2011 22:20

Really? It's like a Samson story is it? Shall we tell the fanjo de-furrers that their ladyparts are liable to become weak and timid from loss of fur?

Jacksmania · 17/11/2011 00:52

OMG Shock!!! So that's what's wrong with me!!!!

:o

TheRealTillyMinto · 17/11/2011 08:39

Shall we tell the fanjo de-furrers that their ladyparts are liable to become weak and timid from loss of fur?

i was pissed off today before i read that Grin Grin

TheButterflyEffect · 17/11/2011 09:07

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FoodUnit · 17/11/2011 10:15

:o

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 17/11/2011 10:21

I've got one that grows near my left nipple .. but I'm worried I might have another growing on my chin these days Hmm

< worries is weird, freaky two long haired woman Grin >

swallowedAfly · 17/11/2011 18:06

don't say this! i just trimmed fanjo hair today Blush will i become weak and unsexualised?

i'm ashamed, yet too stupidly open not to mention, to note that i have a bit of a flirtation going on and am getting a bit fruity minded and what do i find myself doing today? shaving my armpits in the shower and then trimming away at my bush. purely coincidental of course Hmm

how do sex and wellbeing fit together? i'm having a serious hankering now and i'm pretty sure (i've known feast and famine) that our sexuality definitely has a role to play.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/11/2011 18:23

I wonder about sex and wellbeing too - my mate's mother (!) sent her a link to that Guardian article about the female orgasm, which lots of people have probably seen before, but just in case:

www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/nov/14/female-orgasm-recorded-brain-scans?newsfeed=true

I was actually mostly surprised more research hadn't already been done - like the bit in the West Wing:

Leo: "I'm sorry but can we really justify spending $800,000 on 'A Bio-Cultural Approach to the Study of Female Sexual Fantasy and Genital Arousal'?"

Toby: "How can we afford not to?"

Grin

.... Changing the subject, I clicked on this because I thought of something that really bothers me. I have a habit that when I talk to people, I apologize and put myself down a lot. Often when people are telling me something, instead of saying 'yes, I know that' I will say 'oh, that's interesting' or 'oh, tell me about that'. I really don't like that I do this. I've been realizing how much it gets me down, because I end up feeling as if I'm constantly listening to people telling me stuff I either already know, or explaining in detail when I know the detail ... but it's my fault because I give the impression I am more ignorant or more uncertain than I am.

Is this just me? I've noticed female students doing it too - I think it's quite common, to respond to someone saying something with a question, which seems as if you are just expressing interest, but actually forces you to take the position of the learner or the needy person. I wish I could stop myself doing it, so I am going to make a real effort!

Any tips for good ways to catch myself before I put myself down would be good too - I can never seem to say 'yes, I know that' without feeling really arrogant.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/11/2011 18:35

(Oh, btw ... I didn't mean to say by 'changing the subject' that I don't want to talk about sex! I do want to talk about sex too!)

swallowedAfly · 17/11/2011 18:57

but you say, "yes AND..." surely?

it's a shared creation (conversation) surely?

no need for, 'i know' or 'how interesting' when you are sparking off of them onto the next thing.

sometimes it's about under estimating people i think. as in instead of trying to dumb yourself down to make them feel good you could flow with them and make them feel good through their interaction and collaborative discoveries.

sorry if i'm way off track.

swallowedAfly · 17/11/2011 19:00

i always want to talk about sex. i don't think women talk about sex enough personally. i'm sure we'd all have much better sex and expectations of sex etc if we talked about it more.

sex is great! and, for the record, for lack of anywhere more apropriate to announce it, sex is seriously much better for me since having a child. some say women hit their peak later, some find birth and subsequent interventions have arranged things better physiologically - who knows. but sex is definitely better for me now.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/11/2011 19:37

No, I think you are probably right SaF.

I think I'm scared of the pauses in conversation, or of feeling as if I'm boring whoever I'm talking to by not being enthusiastic enough. I don't want to dumb myself down, I just find myself doing it. I hadn't thought of it as underestimating them because I was thinking about people who're superior to me in a work context, or who've assumed I don't know about whatever it is. But you are right, I do it with people who're not in that scenario too where there is no need.

I'm also really nervous about coming across as patronizing if I say 'yes and'.

Sorry, I don't know if I'm making sense and it's not like I'm worrying about this stuff all the time - I just noticed it a lot recently with a lot of socializing with people at conferences and with DH's mates whom I don't know so well.

**

I agree with you re. sex (well, the talking more bit, i wouldn't know about what it's like when you have children, but great to hear Grin). The discussions about PIV were really interesting to me in that regard - I do find PIV works for me but it was so interesting that so many people said that while it was lovely, you got the feeling lots of them were a bit surprised to find they'd finally made it work, or they were admitting it took some work to get it right. I think the whole culture about women faking orgasms is a real problem in this regard, because both men and women feel very unsure about how to say when sex isn't satisfying for the woman.

Incidentally, I may as well say this here as it's on topic and it really annoys and upsets me - my DH doesn't like oral sex on me, and this really makes me feel he's being negative about my body in a way that's quite offensive. I really don't like it, but then again get pushed up against the realization that probably, were it not for porn culture, I wouldn't automatically assume oral sex is routine. Some very tangled thoughts there!

TheRealTillyMinto · 17/11/2011 20:16

I have been planning the feminist Spa today.... Sometimes wear my lady moustache au naturele and feel good enough as i am, and other times, i dont and bleach it. At the feminist Spa, you can not only get a haircut but come away, after a little colour application, with your lady tache in its natural glory.... Oh and the Spa is decorated with realistic Romanesque nude statues. Some of them look like they have had children etc.

THe recent survey where 50% of men think they look 'great' got me thinking that men aspire to a realistic version of themselves whereas women conditioned(?) into thinking we must look like 20 yr old model or we are unattractive. So my third act against the patriarchy is to be REALISTIC in my appearance.