Asa feminist what do you think about the burkha/niqab, liberating or oppressive?

[DarlingDuck]

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My father is Arabic and a Muslim and I was raised and lived in an Islamic country for most of my life.

To cover from head to toe "to please men" is no different to wearing a skirt only a few inches long "to please men".

Both sides would argue it isn't to "please men".

Banning the niqab is still telling women what they can and can't wear. I don't cover, unless visiting elderly relatives "back home" where I wear only the hijab. Tbh in this day and age it's more to do with culture than it is religion.

I can't accept that wearing a short skirt is the same as wearing a burka. It is not.

Covering a human being's face - on the basis that they have certain genitalia - is not the same as a woman choosing a short skirt to attract men.

in some ways i don't think it is that different from women feeling they have to wear sexy clothes, wear make up, shave and wax, wear high heels etc to be accepted.

The choice to wear what you like is the same. Each is pre conceived by the male ideology.

If you think that CHOOSING a mini skirt is a decision made all by yourself and not what is a pre conceived idea then you are misled by the fashion industry.

In fact wearing a hijab, and a loose cover all type clothing could be quite liberating (as long as it's not forced on you of course) from feeling you have to conform to western standards of beauty.

Some might argue that the "need" (for some, not all women) to wear make up is indeed oppressive. It also "covers" the human face.

But surely you cannot be saying to me that fashion - high heels, short skirt etc. is just our version of the Burka?

If your teenage daughter started wearing a burka at the instigation of her boyfriend you would think ' oh it's the patriarchy at work again, at least she's not wearing high heels'?

Bull. Shit.

Thinking women's bodies are so toxic they have to be covered at all times is not equivalent to women adopting makeup, high heels etc even though that is to some extent part of our Western patriarchal ( yet relatively equal and liberal ) culture.

I can't quite believe I am reading this..

yes because high heels aren't uncomfortable and restrictive, seems like a way to make women conform and chain them to me. I have friends who can't be seen without a full face of make-up, it would be really unsettling and upsetting for them. Why do they feel this way?

Make up and hijabs are not mutually exclusive, neither high heels or tight jeans.

posie is right, im sure a lot of women in "burka" have skinny fit jeans on.

Oh FGS

I'm sure they do and my friends who wear hijab wear loads of eye-makeup and dye their hair etc - though definitely no skinny jeans.

Norman, alot of marketing bucks go into convincing Western women that they "need" expensive, constrictive products and services to be "acceptably feminine," whether it's waxing, crippling footwear, toxic lotions and potions or cosmetic surgery. In my great gran's day, it was corsets laced so tight they cause internal organ damage and restricted breathing and movement.

Basically, just because something is spun and hard sold to us as prettifying and feminising and a "free choice," doesn't mean it's any of the above.

But women who cover still buy in to all that, expensive potions and potions, waxing, facials hair straightening, anti wrinkle stuff

They do or at least some do. I just find it strange to see women get their knickers in a twist over women covering up but give no thought to women feeling they have to look like Jordan lookalikes to be attractive. They say that Muslim women really have no choice even when they think they do - seems just as apt with the pressure many women feel to look attractive and conform with using make-up and heels etc.

Yyes thanks for that guys

What I am surprised at is that you see some sort of equivalency between make up , mini skirts rtc and the burka. Maybe in some undergraduate social sciences essay, but in real life?

I get the western oppression of women thing, you are not telling me anything I don't know but you cannot pretend this is equivalent to wearing a burka. It's ridiculous.

Of course it's equivalent.

It's either a choice or it's not.

I didn't say it wasn't oppressive. You can CHOOSE to wear high heels and think it's a decision made all by yourself and not by the patriarchy or you can CHOOSE to cover your head/face/neck down/elbow up and think it's a decision made all by yourself and not by the patriarchy.

I sit on the fence because while I don't bother with a hijab (I'm not a Muslim) in the UK, I also refuse to walk around half naked or in tight fitting clothes.

KRITIQ Mon 24-Oct-11 23:06:31
Norman, alot of marketing bucks go into convincing Western women that they "need" expensive, constrictive products and services to be "acceptably feminine," whether it's waxing, crippling footwear, toxic lotions and potions or cosmetic surgery. In my great gran's day, it was corsets laced so tight they cause internal organ damage and restricted breathing and movement.

Basically, just because something is spun and hard sold to us as prettifying and feminising and a "free choice," doesn't mean it's any of the above.

AGAIN, this is not WEstern, maybe women in the East don't get waxed they get threaded, crippling heels are often worn by Muslim young women with a hijab. The difference is that high heels don't make someone a good ? Muslim, Brit, whatever.

I neither wear skimpy clothing, high heels nor a hijab. (never leave the house without make up though, but that is my conditioning that I cannot age EVER)

And often I mean sometimes!!

Despite WHO wears the heels, the point is they are an oppressive item of clothing.

Your conditioning? By the fashion industry?

Erm, I don't wear heels. And noone is saying that heels aren't part of the objectifying women crap, are they?

I was referring to your confused comment of religion and nationality;

"...High heels don't make someone a good Muslim, Brit, whatever".

Well Cuntry, my point (quite clear I thought) was the regarding the constant comparison between heels and hijab. One makes you a good Muslim the other doesn't have such weight attached.

A woman in a hijab is not necessarily a "good Muslim" either.