Facebook supports rape?

[MotherPanda]

Have we a thread on this yet?

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/facebook-hate-speech-women-rape?newsfeed=true

I am really shocked.

[SardineQueen]

If rapists were violent in their relationships, had to have power and control to perform in all areas of their life including sexually, and all the rest of it, they'd be pretty fucking easy to spot, wouldn't they.

I can't believe what I'm reading here TBH. Where does that leave women raped by men who are like that? Not raped? Or stupid? What? FFS.

[SardineQueen]

who are NOT like that obviously

[TheRhubarb]

SQ - men who think it is ok to rape have something wrong with them ok? The argument on here seems to be that any man is capable of rape and that most would if they thought they could get away with it. I find that shocking and offensive.

Now I am guessing you have been a victim and I am sorry that you've had to experience that. I am also guessing that he was a partner of yours. So I apologise in advance for saying that rapists have something wrong with them, but that is my opinion. Rape is not an ordinary crime, it is a violation of someone's basic rights, it objectifies women and leaves the victim scarred for life.

Of course a rapist can perform sexually without raping, just as a thief is capable of shopping without stealing. That goes without saying. But if a man thinks that rape is acceptable, then his moral compass hasn't just gone awry, it's fucked. Perhaps it was never there in the first place.

What they do is make it seem as though it is your fault. But you can do more spot a rapist than you can a thief, yet I am sure you will agree that you cannot go around saying that the ordinary man on the street is a thief. Yet stealing is the wrong comparison because rape is far from being a victimless crime, so let's use mugging. You cannot even contemplate mugging someone yet you must agree if someone can justify the act of mugging there has to be something socially wrong with that person? Social as in the act of communicating with others, having healthy relationships, finding common ground, knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Muggers don't just mug because they think they can, they mug to intimidate, to have a financial reward, to make themselves feel more powerful, more in control and above the law. Is that what rapists do? Quite possibly, because it evokes the same fear and feeling of being violated (I use mugging as it involves force). I am aware that not all rape involves force, some rape is perpetrated when the person is rendered helpless, and that is the most cowardly act of rape.

Whatever the reason, that person has deep social issues for even thinking they could justify such an act. And that person is nothing like the majority of men.

[bemybebe]

SQ - I think the point that jamma is making is that 'stranger' rapists (potential and realized) are people who have certain character traits in common that allow them in certain circs carry out their attacks. They are not just random 'men from the street', 'ordinary blokes'. And that 'acquaintance' rapists who as a group are more difficult to profile still have a number of traits in common...

Again, my point was it is a shame that by making a statement that she did (deliberately or by accident) CE diverted her argument... real pity because in the end - FB and its scandalous encouraging of these pro-rape groups is forgotten.

[jamma111]

SardineQueen asked
jamma you seem up on your stuff. Does the profiling of acquaintance rapists come from studies on acquaintance rapists who have been convicted to rape?

I haven't quoted any peer-reviewed papers here, and I always think it is a bit corny quoting abstracts when folk have to pay to download the full paper. I have an Athens login but I wouldn't wish to abuse it. All of the references came from the public web sites linked, just using Google.

SardineQueen asked
What is your point with that post jamma? You say you are labouring the point but you don't say what your point is?

Well, basically, that even with aquaintence rapists, there is evidence that the offenders (generally) exhibit traits that not easily associated with (sigh) average men in the street.

With stranger rapists, the distinction is even clearer - there are distinct sociopathic and other traits that provide good markers in being able to clearly identify 'those who do' and 'those who might' from 'those who would never'. Of course there are exceptions to any rule. In essence though generalistic stereotyping is never helpful, but professional scientific profiling is.

[SardineQueen]

Your response is hazarding guesses as to why you might have upset me with your posts?

Sorry but that is a bit rubbish.

You keep saying "oh rapists are like this, they're like that" but you haven't given one shred of evidence that is the case. You say they have to be in control and powerful in all aspects of their life. Really? So they should be easy to spot, yes? You say they are social wankers. Really? (Not sure what it means but anyway) and that they take in all situations. Where do you get these ideas from?

I am guessing that you are making it up as you go along and don't realise how genuinely offensive you are being in your unsupported ponderings.

[TheRhubarb]

Dont, I am arguing against the phrase that rapists rape because they can and that they are no different to the ordinary man on the street.

Which bit of that do you not get?

Intelligent they may be, convincing family men, etc. Rape is such a hideous crime that morally, that person has something wrong. If you are saying that rapists are fully functional morally, socially and educationally then perhaps you would care to explain why rapists commit the act of rape, because the explanation "because they can" is the stupidiest one I've come across yet.

[jamma111]

Sorry bemybebe,

You posted faster than little I and were spot-on too I think.

[SardineQueen]

bemybebe but the vast majority of rapists are acquaintance rapists.

[TheRhubarb]

I studied forensic psychology.

But obviously you are all right and I am wrong. So I shall piss off and leave you to your assumptions about men.

[TheRhubarb]

jamma and bemybebe - spot on. But lost on this thread.

[SardineQueen]

Rhubarb these are the things you have said

""Rapists do not rape because they can. They rape because they are socially disfunctional (does that sit better?) and cannot perform unless they feel in control and powerful. "

"I didn't just mean in the bedroom SQ - I meant in life. Rapists dominate women and use them to satisfy their own needs. Therefore in life rapists are usually social wankers who like to feel powerful."

"Rapists are social wankers who usually take advantage of other situations. "

You keep repeating this stuff and you don't say where you're getting it from, and when I ask you what you men you change the subject and get aggressive.

You keep saying "rapists are like this" and how do you know? Then you say "oh well they don't have a sign around their necks" but the things you mention would be a huge sign around their neck. But loads of women are raped by men who aren't like you describe at all. Why won't you have that? What about those women - what about them? What message are you giving to them?

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

Because society teaches men to assume consent and entitlement.

Simple as.

"She's my wife? I'm entitled"
"I bought her dinner? I'm entitled"
"I helped her out of this situation? I'm entitled"

Like others have said, men will say they wouldn't ever rape someone, yet can find a number of situations where they assume it's acceptable.

Jamma, I don't think using your athens would be "abusing" the account at all... Where would you get that idea? If you can find the original study (not quoted) online, then go ahead. But if you have access to information, why refrain from using it? I'd just reference it.

[TheRhubarb]

I know because I studied forensic psychology SQ.
I read interviews of rapists and paedos. I did assignments on the psychological make-up of rapists and paedos. I studied the Jamie Bulger case amongst others. I gave up forensic psychology because I couldn't hack it.

My knowledge might be rusty, but these are not ponderings. They are the things I learnt.

I apologise if I upset you. I shall withdraw only because I feel you would prefer me to do so.

[AyeBelieveInTheHumanityOfMen]

Well, I think it's marvelous that these men are so easily identified. I trust that we will now see this evidence presented in trials and we will see a massive increase in convictions.

I do actually understand what you are saying Rhubarb et al. I just think that the extensive "othering" that you are doing is playing into the hands of those that want to believe that rapists are terrible ogres who violently rape women in amongst a day full of general anti-social behaviour. Not to mention shifting the focus somewhat so that the onus is easily put on women to avoid being alone with these easily identified men.

[SardineQueen]

I'm not raging at you.

And SGM can say what she likes and has a perfectly valid point. It is not right to start hazarding guesses about people's histories and then patronise them. All the while talking absolute rubbish about "What rapists are like" as if they are facts when they aren't.

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

SGM has every right to rage at you, rhubarb. The only reason I'm refraining from doing so is to refrain from making this personal and upsetting myself, let alone anyone else.

[SardineQueen]

Rhubarb so your genuine contention is that:

"Rapists do not rape because they can. They rape because they are socially disfunctional (does that sit better?) and cannot perform unless they feel in control and powerful. "

"I didn't just mean in the bedroom SQ - I meant in life. Rapists dominate women and use them to satisfy their own needs. Therefore in life rapists are usually social wankers who like to feel powerful."

"Rapists are social wankers who usually take advantage of other situations. "

Full stop.

[Theala]

I think it's equally as offensive to suggest that all men are potential rapists, and that the ones that have never raped anybody have only not done so because they didn't have the opportunity, tbh.

[TheRhubarb]

SQ - have I told you that your voice, your opinion does not count in any way at all on this debate? Because if I have I will gladly piss off.

[SardineQueen]

If you're doing forensic psychology then presumably you are studying people who have been caught.

The vast majority of rapes are never reported.