In light of MNHQ's recent statement that the feminism section is in fact not a feminism section but a section 'about' feminism, perhaps we need to be warning people about this up front?

[Beachcomber]

I'm of the opinion that it needs to made clear that whilst the title may be 'feminism/women's rights', this section is quite different to other boards that deal with feminism/women's rights.

It isn't fair to mislead - lots of posters expect the section to be a place where feminist views can be freely explored without fear of posters' mental health being questioned, and a zone where misogyny is unwelcome. In reality, pretty much anything goes here and whilst it is, of course, MNHQ's prerogative to run their site as they see fit, some sort of disclaimer about the section seems only fair in order to forewarn posters (especially posters looking for support or exploration of sensitive issues).

Perhaps it would be an idea for there to be a header at the top of the section stating MNHQ's position?

All suggestions welcomed .

Rhubarb0 - for eg I wouldn't be calling you a "de-railer" if you posted about your views on rape etc - as I recognise you are regular MN poster - post on range of topics etc. Some of our best threads have been convertiing debating with such posters (see Portofino's recent concersion ).

However when a male poster comes here and everything is a thickly veiled attempt at attacking women - that's the time for MNHQ to step in with the banning button.

Plus the suggestion for some guidelines - and perhaps a - come to this thread - for any derailers.

Don't worry Hully, I update it every month and posters either move back off it, or go onto the 'Do Not Engage With' section.

.

Phew!

no Hullygully - I don't mean "toe the line" AT ALL.

I am not that type of person AT ALL.

There are many many lurking here.

My message to them is - if you see feminist posters here who you respect then - respect our opinion when we say that there are people here de-railing and concern trolling.

If you lurk and enjoy the feminist section when it is operating normally [eh] then perhaps consider signing up to support Beachcombers suggestions here.

You know when someone says to you "I have a bad feeling - my sixth sense - spidery sense" it's really good to support people on this.

I am sure some people will understand what I'm saying.

If we aren't allowed to troll hunt is it ok for us to agree on a phrase to use "eg - I think you're derailing so I'm going to ignore your post".

Hullygully - serious question - why do I always see you on the feminist section on these controversial threads - uping the anti - saying oh it's an open forum/I won't toe the line/there isn't one feminist view.

It looks like you did loads of feminist reading years ago - why don't you contribute more positively to the section? What was all that "oh there is nothing wrong with Bob" stuff. Have you read Bob and edd's contributions/been following them?

bibbity - I find it ODD when there is a serious discussion in the feminist section that people who I understand to either not be feminists or not like this section or not normally post here are suddenly VERY interested in these types of threads.

And before we get all the "open forum" bleating - I get that. But I find it ODD. It doesn't happen (does it ) on chicken keeping/dogs/arts and crafts etc.

Thanks for clarifying forkful.

Am still quite genuinely interested in the actual meaning of beachcomber's last post - but scrub it, will ask for my post to be deleted.

gosh - I don't think you need to get it deleted! Also my interpretation may not be what Beachcomber meant!

forkful - I dunno, god knows how I can be bothered.

I really only have one theme: don't gang up on people and make them unwelcome because they think differently. And take women gently by the hand and lead them into the feminist light, because scorning them only makes them retreat and think they don't like feminism because they associate it with being told off.

That's it really. Oh, and I've never liked bullying.

Oh, and I do contribute to the section, and indeed all over mn, and yes, I followed Bob very closely.

FFS, not another one

I know what you mean, Hully. But I think it's important too to stick together when we are being bugged by trolls, not pick out their more reasonable points and agree with them about the nasty Fem Section.

Bibbity, I don't have problem with clarifying what I mean. No need to get your post deleted!

What I mean is that I find it sad (can't think of another word) when trolls/derailers/people who do not have a genuine interest, are able to divide the board IYSWIM.

When this sort of thing happens, sometimes you will get the odd poster who either eggs the trolling/derailing on, or pipes up to say that they think the posters/area being criticised by the troll/derailer are a bag o shite and they are mighty glad to have this opportunity to say their piece.

This sort of thing can result in a pile on because then every one with a grudge or who has taken the hump, will join in and go 'yeah me too - bag o shite I say' because they see regulars doing it.

There are quite a few posters for example that I have never seen post anything constructive on the feminist section, but they always pop up when a bit of derailing/attacking is going on to put the boot in/shout bag o shite.

I find it annoying, tedious and nasty in equal measures.

Thanks

Garlicnutty, I don't mean to make this personal but I think you are being incredibly disingenuous there. - Actually, SGM, it is personally attacking unless you meant naive. With that, I'd disagree but nevermind.

I have to come out and say I don't think Edd or Bob were trolls. They were nothing like Jamez, whose entire timbre was "You wimmin are horrid and need to understand men are better." Bob had an unfortunately superior manner at times, but was picked up on that and amended it. Edd's done nothing but pose sincere points afaics.

When everyone goes witch-hunting against members who don't reflect the prevailing view, it frightens more people away. The only possible outcome of these campaigns is a board with a tiny membership, all agreeing with each other. That's bad enough - I thought we wanted feminism to reach a wider audience?

Even worse, imo - if we don't counter rape myths, etc, every time they are raised, then we're letgiving them free rein. It's not good enough to say "Don't post that here, we're feminists." The myths are spoken all the time, on a multitude of platforms everywhere. We only get the opportunity to speak the opposite truth here - and a few other places, but at least this one is well-read and well-indexed. The more often we confirm that fewer than 3% of rape claims are false, that consent is the only test of rape, that most rapists are known to their victim and so on, the more people will read those facts and question the myths.

In trying to silence dissent, feminists silence ourselves.

AyeBelieveInTheHumanityofMen I doubt this thread will make it to 1000 posts, but if it does, will you post that as the last post?

In the manner of your astounding parp .

agree, BoF.

If people have issues they want to take up with some of the feminist topic posters, ok, fair enough, but the chances of doing so constructively when we are under attack (by which I mean: being trolled, having websites made pulling out our posts and naming us and bitching about us) is pretty remote. It is not the time to do it and expect the best outcome, seriously, when everyone is on edge and feeling defensive. Even aside from the fact that it's like starting a civil war in the middle of the Battle of Britain

Well, I hope I'm not included in your spreadsheet either beachcomber. The very thought of a spreadsheet of "genuine mners that you have to watch your back around" is a little bit depressing. I am absolutely a feminist but find quite a lot of feminist threads here hard to engage with, and I have absolutely gone to the limits of my ability to be constructively critical rather than blandly consensual on this thread.

Labelling myself a victim?

Oh, well. I've got the message. Congratulations.

i dont get it - someone explain

whats the difference betweeen a feminist section and a section 'about' feminism?

Nope Calatalie, don't take this the wrong way but you are a new name to me.

People do understand that I don't really have spreadsheet don't they? This is a long running joke/way of making a point on MN. To actually have one would be really sad.

Custardo - if you search for Vesuvia on this thread she summarises it beautifully.