In light of MNHQ's recent statement that the feminism section is in fact not a feminism section but a section 'about' feminism, perhaps we need to be warning people about this up front?

[Beachcomber]

I'm of the opinion that it needs to made clear that whilst the title may be 'feminism/women's rights', this section is quite different to other boards that deal with feminism/women's rights.

It isn't fair to mislead - lots of posters expect the section to be a place where feminist views can be freely explored without fear of posters' mental health being questioned, and a zone where misogyny is unwelcome. In reality, pretty much anything goes here and whilst it is, of course, MNHQ's prerogative to run their site as they see fit, some sort of disclaimer about the section seems only fair in order to forewarn posters (especially posters looking for support or exploration of sensitive issues).

Perhaps it would be an idea for there to be a header at the top of the section stating MNHQ's position?

All suggestions welcomed .

yy I know not a literal spreadsheet.

I'm a new name to me too. I've been here in various incarnations since about 1782.

But but but Boffy and co

We have disagreements on who is, and isn't a troll.

Tell you what, let's not mind. They'll always be disagreements about all sorts of things, why should trolls or otherwise be any different?

We should all just bumble along, doing our best to spread the word, and have a row here and there if we have to...But always rememebring the talk guidelines and being strictly polite.

Oh, and forkful? Just so we're clear: Me posting my dissenting view is just that. Not "upping the ante."

Hully, there are also disagreements about who is and isn't a bully, and what is and isn't a good way of getting women more interested in feminism. Dittany's 'flounce' thread is a great illustration of that.

I don't know what you mean Alys, but really, I can't go there.

i have seen people being dismissed,demeaned called names on fem topics practically as a default position.the thing is it does cut both ways,so when posters are asking for consideration they too need to ease up on name calling troll to posters they disagree with.this has gotten over used and spuriously chucked about

the spectacle of women critiquing whether or not another woman is feminist enough or an mra,troll,apologist is really quite unbecoming.and adds to the whole cant say that here vibe

frankly,anyone can and should post
and mnhq modearte as usual

as ive said one needs to be circumspect and internet safe about disclosing harrowing experiences.this isnt safe space - its highly visible

i actively post in fem threads and will continue to do so
i can also guarantee if i want to be called troll,i just mosey to fem topics.and sure as eggs is eggs...

i suppose id say it would be nice to see reduction in people randomly shouting troll,and let lively debate happen.

'statement on a right for feminism to exist' from mumsnet

all seems a bit ott bollocksy to me.

also

i recognise that there have been some really really bloody horrible trolls in this section but unfortunately i think it adds fuel to the thought that non feminists can question feminism at all

in fact i thought that what what the statement meant - that - you; know you dont have to be a feminist - its a section 'about' feminism.

I also think there needs to be some recognition that there are some self proclaimed feminists who are pretty horrible to those who question them in any way.

there are also some nice feminists - in fact some of my best..friends...

in fact i only came on this thread becuae i thought mn had recognised the fact that non feminists were being exluded and encouraged not to post, that the feminism section was for feminists only rather than discussing and exploring feminist ideology constructively.

i can't even begin to describe the full on bashing i got the last time this was discussed

a feminism topics mission statement is socialsciencetastic and well too earnest and chin scratchy

a recurrent loud and clear message in this thread and others too is that many have experienced fem topics in past as harsh and critical - and thats a shame

"whats the difference betweeen a feminist section and a section 'about' feminism?"

Well I think that most MNers would assume and hope that this is a "feminist section" where feminist issues are discussed/debated - consciousness raising - campaigning/activism - things being discussed through a "feminist lens" - feminist bookclub etc.

A section 'about' feminism would be one where people feel free to pile in without a feminist perspective and then get irate when people explain why they are not looking at things from a feminist pov.

Eg a thread from someone recently about housework - the DH not helping or "seeing" what needed to be done. Feminist perspective - Wifework book - lack of respect/£ for "caring work"/society's perspectives on it being a woman's responsibility to keep the house clean/how this impacts on women's mental health/careers. We got regular MNers saying basically "suck it up". Now this is a bit and I genuinely wonder it they'd not noticed what section it was in.

We also attract male posters who post predominantly here - who don't engage with the topic or points - and post inflamatory remarks.

Now some of these remarks will be specifically inflamatory to feminists. The sad sad thing is that these posters will have "researched" how to do this on specific website (male right's activists websites).

I will give you an example. Some aspect of equality is discussed and then one of these posters will (for example) pop up and say "oh well why didn't Harman sort that out then when she was in charge!".

I think most of you here will realise why this is designed to derail?

I find this to be entirely different to some of the ding-dong threads we've had here with what I call the (channels Miranda's Mother) "genuine male MNers" - eg I've had some fights with Larry - and we disagreed massively but he did engage with what I was saying - it was back and forth you know - and it wasn't sly little digs.

no dont presume what most mn assume and hope about fem topics

ive always conceptualised this as topic about feminism and not a feminist section.and clearly so does mnhq too

So does this mean MN are now allowing rape apologetics, domestic violence excusing and misogyny on the feminist section? I mean, they can still argue it's a disussion of feminism.

Cheers for that, MN...

Quite Lenin. Benign he ain't

So, why is it again that you can't go on Off The Beaten Track?

bibbity - what would be different in OTBT

I think that a) the section should be more accessible than that; and b) the trolls would simply find that, and then God help all the people posting more personal things there. OTBT is not a forcefield, just a bit awkward to get to.

I believe its not google-able?

I finding the notion that feminism is for everybody, and yet it should be hidden away, on a website which is, after all, predominately female, a bit of a sad contradiction.

Why does there need to be a disclaimer? This is an internet forum; anybody with access to the internet can post here. How can anybody who knows about internet forums not be aware of the concept of others being out to spoil it for them? It's not excusing trolling at all, but it's the internet and it happens.

This is getting really out of hand now and if this were my site, I'd be tempted to shut the topic down completely because it would really get on my wick that the way I run my site was getting criticised all the time.

But fair play to the people behind mn, they didn't get to run a successful site such as this by having my low level of tolerance and they've got ace diplomacy skills so I'll dare say the topic will still be here. Which is a good thing, I think.

I think deliberate trolling (as opposed to getting on people's nerves as a side effect of a strongly-held belief) is off but what on earth you expect mn to do about it I simply do not know.

it would also be the fact that OTBT threads get deleted after a week; people on here often refer back to previous discussions.
Of course it is useful for very personal stuff and indeed it has been used for that (eg when someone came on asking advice about whether she should pursue the case against her rapist.)

Oh this is impossible.

Something is v wrong indeed with the Mumsnet feminism section and I daresay a lot of that is to do with malicious trolling. Perhaps you would say it is 100% to do with malicious trolling. However, the regulars on your board want something that mnhq seem unable or unwilling to provide. You want something that is a little bit different to the rest of Mumsnet - so, perhaps you should sort yourselves out with what you want. These demands that mnhq are instantly on top of all off-message posters on your threads and counting the number of offensive posts they make and banning them when it gets to a certain number seems very labour intensive from their pov to me.

Or what wamster said.