The departure of dittany

[Pan]

I only know that she has left, and in her post she didn't say much as to why, though some people can speculate and imagine why.

Quite a few days ago (last weekend I think) there were threads that pinpointed the lack of consideration that MNHQ has toward the sort of trolls that infest the FS section from time to time - different in nature and purpose to your average troll that infects MN from time to time.

It may well be that d. is in contact with regular posters whom she trusts. I don't know.

What I do know is that d. was a fabulous source of invigoration and illumination to a lot of posters, myself included, though we didn't always agree with her.

I would like a review from MNHQ of their current "talk guidlines" policy, in order that the FS is provided with a consideration that recognises the particular vulnerability that it experiences.

D. left for her own reasons - but this presents itself as a sort of 'test case' for MN to respond sensitively.

Would anyone agree and post here in support of this?

"we are talking about people who post asking women what it is like to be raped and joking that they can rape them and get away with it"

That is of course shocking behaviour and should never be tolerated. MNHQ should ban their IP addresses.

I was talking about more garden variety disagreement and civil conversation about what is and what should be.

I didn't call you a tool, or toolish SM.

I described a behaviour which I thought was unhinged.

I didn't mention you.

You have claimed the behaviour all for yourself.

I never accused you of it.

You recognised yourself.

Frumpy, no I'm not angry, I'm laughing here.

cote it is different when there are people who solely register on the site to troll a section. difference of opinion on things like sleep is not the same as misogynists being enlisted from other sites to come on here to try to shut down discussions and harass mn members.

it would also be different if the same person was following around the ff'ers no matter what they were discussing to harass them.

there is a disparity whereby this section is seen as fair game (and it's members) in ways that others aren't.

mnhq DIDN"T even ban them sadly cote.

that's the kind of thing we're up against.

I'm not upset about people opposing the majority Cote.

I'm just bored by trolls.

I don't know if you're a misyogynist and I don't care. I'm interested in the arguments on the whole.

nobody minds garden variety discussion and debate cote. it's the outright misogyny and ongoing deliberate attempts to derail and silence people. same culprits on multiple threads here over and over and over with no response from mnhq.

Usingmainlyspoons - Yes, "actress" as in the women in porn and "actor" as in the men in porn.

I'm finding this conversation hard going.

There's a lot of whinging (I'm sorry I just see it that way)

I haven't seen any poster be that rude on this section but i've seen some regulars become very rude yet that isn't pulled up and marked as bad behaviour.

How about instead of calling the person unhinged you ask them to elaborate on their views and you try to respectfully listen even if they are views that you find too 'out there'. Or you post a solid counter argument.

Nobody is forcing you to agree.

I would be interested to read the thread that you are referring to Cote if you could link to it.

lenin will you support mn delete personal gripes like toolish?
cannot naturally differentiate ignore jibes one likes and be punitive to those not liked..

indeed people are asking for more stringent moderation and xourtesy
even to the toolish

I have to admire Beachcomber, saf, ThereBeBollox tbh because I don't actually understand what scottishmummy is talking about.

I also find it quite interesting the number of posters who only seem to appear on "have a go at feminist threads" claiming that they are put off the feminist section by the rucks but are quite happy to fuel the ruck here.

Smallwhitecat - Thanks for saying that perhaps I'm not a troll or a misogynist

"but plainly someone who struggles to accommodate other points of view without resorting to personal insults"

Personal insults, of which I have voiced many here, I assume you are saying. Where are these insults, pray tell?

Cote not only did that poster not get banned but there are some regular/standard posters who stand up for him, defend him and describe other posters as meanies who want to shut down debate and have the fem section All To Themselves because we want this poster banned.

Same happened with another one who leaps from being insulting and hugely derailing to being nicey nicey. A whole bunch of fucking nincompoops (thanks SGM) come to their defence - either because they are unable to see how crap this behaviour is or because they quite like to see the feminist section having to put up with this sort of crap.

I didn't call anyone a tool or toolish SM.

I said people who would go on a site like the chicken keepers, lone parents, stepmothers etc., regularly in order to tell them that keeping chickens is wrong/ marriage is important/ being a stepmother is wrong, is needy, toolish behaviour.

I didn't accuse anyone specific of doing it here.

I do find it amusing that you assumed I was accusing you though. Feel free to confess to that behaviour here if you want to, we're very forgiving souls round here....

this thread is no different in shit taken than any other threads
except some have absolutely convinced selves they are subject to attack and derision. for some there is a default position of got at

and my some like to dish it out on here but are sensitised to perceived attacks

'"we are talking about people who post asking women what it is like to be raped and joking that they can rape them and get away with it"

That is of course shocking behaviour and should never be tolerated. MNHQ should ban their IP addresses.

I was talking about more garden variety disagreement and civil conversation about what is and what should be.'

That is exactly the point Cote, they DIDN'T ban this bloke and he is still posting and THAT is the kind of thing we are talking about.

I am happy to discuss stuff with normal Mumsnetters no matter how far apart our views are, but when someone joins up ONLY to post anti-feminist things on the feminist threads, I don't honestly see why we are expected to accommodate them by letting their posts - which make an uncomfortable environment for women who have been attacked - stand in the name of free speech.

Note this bit from the MN troll policy:
''We all tend to be a bit suspicious of new folks posting things of a sensitive or inflammatory nature, but we would rather Mumsnet erred on the side of giving folks the benefit of the doubt and risked being made to look a bit foolish than pounce on someone who turns out to be genuinely in need of help'

I agree with this in relation to threads where posters are looking for help, but that is not what the sort of trolls on the FWR section are doing or even pretending to do.
Someone pointed out yesterday that the MN definition of troll is different from the standard one that you will find eg on Wikipedia, because it only covers people who are pretending to be someone they're not, which the FWR trolls don't generally do (except for the fake Bindel, the ones who pretend to be rad fems and post that men should be imprisoned for rape without trial etc). They're doing it to disrupt discussion and make the space unpleasant for feminists.

Yeah frumpy forgive me for whingeing about rape jokes, aspersions being cast cast on my dad and DH's treatment of me and questioning of my mental health.

Constructive post - not.

Someone says that all male porn stars are rapists?

And you don't think they're mentally unhinged?

That says more about you

i took the time to post several times responding to you cote but clearly you're not interested.

going to come away from this thread.

mnhq - do you exist - are you out there???