Women and traditional dress.

[LostInTheWoods]

This is something I've noticed over the years.

In many cultures it appears to be more likely that women wear traditional dress than men. I'm thinking about sarees, salwar kameez, kimonos, african-style dresses and head-dresses and probably others I haven't seen. You are much less likely to see men wearing their equivalent traditional outfits.

Why is this?

No....well I don't think so and yes. Actually saying that Chinese men wear heavy wigs too...and beard wigs, well they do on Chinese Soaps!!

Chinese women, young Chinese women who are the only ones you see and the pretty old, wear very revealing clothing, short skirts, porn heels (see htrough and impractical, more than 'Western' girls....even in the day/. (in the part of China I visit most frequently)

Yet again, Posie, I think you've been visiting parallel universes to the one I live in. I don't recognise any of the Asian countries I've lived in from the decsriptions you give.

Male samurai didn't wear wigs, they had elaborate shaved and knotted hairstyles, and either hats or helmets that weighed an absolute tonne.

And I don't think wig-wearing is a big thing in Japan except amongst certain uber-trendy types such as the harajuku girls and Shibuyu crews (outside geishas, who, lets face it, are few and far between these days). Its no more or less popular than hair extensions and clip-ins in the UK.

And young Chinese women in everyday clothing more revealing than Western clothing??? Yes, there are some young Chinese who dress in "porn heels", but its not the norm to see - actually, in common with a lot of Asians, they dress relatively modestly and very smartly compared to what I see in London on a daily basis.

Your comments are increasingly sounding like a determination to emphasise the cultural superiority of the West vs any Asians. who of course must all be either oppressed or dressing like porn stars in your descriptions.

The Boss.....What? The area I frequent in China, the South West, has the largest city in the world, population 60m in the next few years when the cities merge, and these young girls wear tiny skirts and lacy clothes, very very high, clear perspex, heels.

I'm loving BuzNuz on this topic. My gran wouldn't've felt right going out without a headscarf in 60s Yorkshire. Wish I could've worn a veil to my dad's funeral and for a couple of months after.

But how am I going to tell my middle-aged friend, bless 'im, that wearing traditional English women's dress with dodgy makeup is bad for his photography business?

(in the part of China I visit most frequently) There we go Corvax.....this is what I said.

Some girls in probably all cities in China wear clothes like that, posie. Not all do, and I would hazard a guess that the majority don't, based on what I see with my own eyes on the large numbers of trips I make there every year. Short skirts are often seen, same as in Korea, Thailand and Japan, but they are generally pretty and sweet, and combined with covered up top halves, big boobs not being the norm but great legs being in abundance not at all pornstarish.

The clear heels, meh, they are just cheap shoes.

If I walked down any high street in Britain on a Saturday night, I would probably say all British teenagers dress like pot stars as well, applying your same flawed logic. I mean, have you seen clapham high street on a st night, or Newcastle town centre, or Nottingham town centre. It's just that I'm not so dumb as to think that it's in any way representative of everyday life for most people.

Of course, viewing the world through superior racist specs often leads people to make sweeping and crass generalisations.

That's not what corvax said, not the same at all. Perhaps brush up on your reading and comprehension skills

Also loving the fact posie that earlier in the thread you caution about uk having different regions and not generalising about British girls, but seem to have no shame at all at doing exactly the same about Asians.

If it sounds like racism and smells like racism...

TheBoss........... no it's not true. I've spent a loooong old time in China, and can categorically say that a particular age of girls that you actually see walking around the streets do dress like I've described. Although the sense I get is not sexually available, they hang around in groups of girls. Of course I could have said some, but it would be foolish to assume anyone would talk about a city of 60m and mean ALL. And as for cheap shoes there are many, plenty, thousands of cheap shoes and not all are platform clear heels.....

But as one cannot comment upon anything anymore without being accused of being prejudiced or racist, even when one is not, then what's the point? Let's not discuss anything, no trends, it's meaningless anyway.

The word some is actually rather important in this context posie. Otherwise it's just dumb and ignorant generalisation, which I, as an Asian living in Asia, find pretty fucking offensive.

Your being accused of racism because your comments are racist, ie the fact that you think it's ok to apply such generalisations to Asians and other non westerners but rail against anyone who makes the mistake of generalising about young western girls attire.

But I suspect I'm talking to a brick wall, the ignorant and prejudiced are often spectacularly foolish and stubborn as well.

Apologies to all for the poor grammar and autocorrect mistakes, am typing one handed on a phone

Thailand ATM, but have lived all over growing up, and travel a lot for work. Posie would be all eyes on stalks here, drawing conclusions that because the hookers on cowboy dress like, you know, hookers, and the bar girls follow suit, that must mean that all Thai girls dress like that. When the reality is so very very different. It's easy to get a distorted view of culture and society when all you get are glimpses.

Gps are from middle east and Asia, real mutt, I am! I spent most of my life in the uk, but still consider myself to by Asian British, no matter where I end up.

What I mean re considering myself to be Asian British is that culturally I identify with and belong to both, but there's no denying my outward appearance as an Asian. I'm rather proud of my heritage, both of birth and of upbringing.

I have a good Turkish name though!

I am astounded by the sweeping generalisations about every culture that posie has made! I really thought that people were at least open to becoming more culturally aware in this day and age - I have made a few attempts at explaining or at least putting my view forward but you seem to bring out the most obscure reasons and logic and have this tunnel vision which to be honest, is not helpful to this discussion at all. You are saying that let's have this discussion, yet you are stopping it from going forward by adopting an extremely prejudiced view of all that is not in your dictionary defined as western - which is also an extremely flawed definition. As much as I have emphasised that education is key for the "oppressed" women to become empowered, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get an education yourself either posie, as you seem to be oppressed by your own views. A bit of education could help remove those blinkers and liberate you from the oppression of these ill-informed opinions/observations.

back to the op, however and some of the less bigoted points of view. Here's something interesting, my dm wears traditional dress in any professional and traditional context, and western in most informal and relaxed ones. So she wears "ethnic" dress to work, even now that she's retired and just is in a voluptuary role, but trousers and tops if having friends round for lunch or popping to the shops etc. I asked her why once, and she just said that she didn't really like western formal clothing because she found it a bit boob revealing, eg cocktail dresses, and she doesn't like to show her cleavage, since she has large breasts. But she loves western informal clothing. Not sure what that all means,but it's an interesting way of dressing.

Like Karma, she hates saris and will only wear them on very specific occassions, eg to my wedding. I can count on one hand the times she worn a sari in the last 10 years. Indian dress is more than saris these days, fortunately. And having worn a sari once, I so undeerstand why, really hard to wear.

My father is similar, except he didn't wear eastern clothing to work, but will always wear in in situations like formal dinners. He keeps buying dh trad clothes, bless him.

And he.s only ever once in my life told me I can't go our dressed like that, and it's when I was about 11 and came down in a top made from a pillowcase . Nt because it was revealing, I wore far worse, just because I looked stupid since it was obviously a pillowcase!

I can see why people might use modern Western dress, like sportswear or 'smart casual' when dressing casually-the reason it has become so ubiquitous is surely because it is relatively cheap, easy to care for and very comfortable.

Plus, while you can if you want go for high status labels, there is a sort of democracy about it. Witness the typically American outfit of button-down shirt and chinos. It is accessible for almost everyone, and discloses nothing about your status or origins. Thre is something very relaxing about that.

So if we don't make generalizations to discuss trends what do we do? What does 'ethnic' mean? As in my mother dresses ethnic? Have spent time in Thailand too....BTW. shouldn't generalize but Thais are possibly the friendliest people I've ever met.

Yy, comfort definitely is the crux of dms fashion choices. She feels uncomfortable in formal western dress because shes scared her admittedly gargantuan boobs may make a break for freedom but comfortable in eastern formal clothes that are more akin to beatifully beaded and embroidered pjs. Whereas western casual clothing is in her experience more comfortable than their eastern equivalent, whilst still maintaining her standards of dress, since she never really does really really casual.

Whereas she wears swimsuits on the beach with ease, whereas dfather will wear the biggest baggiest pair of board shorts he can find!

Posie, the reason ethnic was in quotation marks was because I was being ironic.

There's nothing wrong with generalising to desribe trends, but using the generalisation of small trends to extrapolate into pseudo-understanding of an entire culture, nation or race is pretty stupid.

and many Thais are friendly, many are deeply passive aggressive, or outwardly rude, the same as any other nation in the world.

Oh, and arguing that you shouldn't generalise about western cultures whilst feeling free and defending the right to do the same about other cultures smacks of double standards and racism.

Just in case you weren't clear about my problem with your pov.