Women and traditional dress.

[LostInTheWoods]

This is something I've noticed over the years.

In many cultures it appears to be more likely that women wear traditional dress than men. I'm thinking about sarees, salwar kameez, kimonos, african-style dresses and head-dresses and probably others I haven't seen. You are much less likely to see men wearing their equivalent traditional outfits.

Why is this?

Not sure where you live Posie, but that last hot weekend we had, I saw quite a few women and girls wearing tiny skirts and what are I believe called "crop tops," which looked very similar to what were referred to as boob tubes about 30 years ago. Basically, it's a garment made of stretchy fabric with either no straps or thin string-like straps where the fabric stops either midway between the bottom of the bust and the navel or around mid stomach.

Surely what it is called is irrelevant. When I've seen particularly young women and girls wearing similar tight, brief garments, they do seem to spend alot of time pulling and pushing them around to maintain some coverage, which signals to me that they aren't exactly comfortable and they do seem to prevent them from engaging in some physical activities.

In any case, the point I think Ivor was making is that sometimes "traditional" clothing for men or women can often be more comfortable and practical than the outfits seen as "mainstream" in the UK.

Personally speaking, considering the anatomical differences, I've always wondered why it is that men don't always wear skirts and women don't always wear trousers, but there you go.

And? It's not all is it? It doesn't make them a better Muslim/African/Romanian and so free choice in UK. No order or religion is telling these girls what to wear, not everyone wears it and it's not all of the time.

And the huge difference between men wanting 'their' women to have more cultural ties than them is pretty common, whatever suits men basically. Many a burka clad woman or hijab covered woman is married to a man in Western attire.....I've seen it all over the world.

And in the UK I've seen many a boy struggle with the trousers halfway down their arse constantly pulling/pushing them up or down to achieve the best position.

CRIKRI, I can only speak for myself, but I NEVER wear trousers because I could never find any that I felt comfortable in. I found trousers far more restricting to me than the loose flowy skirts I wear now. I think my hips just aren't the right shape for trousers. This may be the case for other women, too.

Posie, I see women wearing stuff like that everyday. Where do you live? In the countryside prehaps?!

In Bristol, about a mile from the city centre. I am not denying that people wear that sort of attire, but not daily.... and it's fashion not culture/religion and so vastly different. In order to be a 'good' Brit you don;t have to conform to being objectified.

Mum I am similar, I like long flowy skirts and often find jeans especially really uncomfortable.

And seeing people wearing something daily is not the same as wearing it everyday.

Nor do most of the women from overseas, its their choice. Not every women from abroad wears a face covering or a Burka either, we are generalising. If they feel that traditional dress looks more beautiful on themselves why not?

It just gets so boring when people try to discuss the chains of other culture by dress/attire that the way some Brits dress is raked up. It's derailing and pointless. Yes some women in the UK, some, dress in very revealing clothes that advertise a version of woman that is reduced to being wholly objectified..... it doesn't make cultural dress any less excusable for being a good whatever for women, enjoyed by men, when men don't do it.

Ivor.....if it's about beauty then it's no different..but it's not.

Ok I will shut up, you seem to know so much about it Posie, I imagine you have lived in so many different countries and cultures you are fully educated on the matter.

'it doesn't make cultural dress any less excusable for being a good whatever for women' - just shows how closed minded you really are!

Ivor.....No I live in a very culturally diverse city and don't know why the way some British women dress is anything to do with 'traditional dress' with relation to men and women.

The truth about women having to retain more cultural norms whilst men enjoy the freedoms of the UK is an important topic and should be discussed. But it's in the feminist section because it's a feminist issue and not British women against everyone else. Let's discuss culture and reasons not 'well western women dress like slags and so that's no different' line of response. It completely moves the discussion away from it's basis, which is men and women.

Plus I find it's defensive.

Posie, you said, "I am not denying that people wear that sort of attire, but not daily.... and it's fashion not culture/religion and so vastly different. In order to be a 'good' Brit you don;t have to conform to being objectified."

It's been a while since I've been to Bristol, but pop across to Cardiff St Mary's Street on any given Friday or Saturday night. Imho, the fact that nearly ALL the women are dressed in a manner which you may see as "just fashion" suggests that it is very much a part of culture, part of the expectation of what women are supposed to wear.

There is a helluva lot of pressure on "British" women to dress in a certain way, to wax this, to straighten that, to inject those, to stand on them, etc., but because it is peddled as a "choice" and as evidence of our "freedoms" we're supposed to believe it's not a part of our culture, not a part of our cultural traditions? Yeah, right.

They change though and evolve....1970s lots of hair, 2011 none. And it's men too, young males have no or little body hair and so it's more even.

Still find it amusing that in order to discuss other cultural traditions we have to talk about what British girls wear on a FRiday night and not the differences between the sexes...... avoidance and defence.

Interestingly, before I get landed on for "well, what people wear on a night out doesn't count," or some such, I have been quite startled at some of the clothing and make up girls as young as 10 or 11 are wearing to some of the youth groups I'm involved with. I suspect they often wear something over the clothes when they leave the house and get made up on the bus. I also see pre teen and teenage girls similarly styled hanging out in parks and shopping centres, waiting at bus stops with their friends, etc., so it's not just about dressing up to go out.

We've talked to some of the girls about make up and dressing like this along with issues about body image and self-confidence. In common with what's coming out of much research, they say they "have" to be like that - the pressure primarily coming from other girls, often slightly older girls. Those who don't conform either because they can't afford it, parents won't allow it and/or they actually don't want to do it are quite often subjected to bullying by others.

There is alot of pressure out there to be a "certain way" when you are a girl. I think there always has been, but now those messages seem to be getting ever stronger, ever clearer and ever more pervasive. I think this is a part of our culture.

Where I am in the Middle East the vast majority of men wear traditional dress, both inside and outside the home. Woman (certainly the ones I know) wear western dress covered by traditional dress whilst out but in their homes just the western dress.

I don't know what that means really

So, I see we're still avoiding talking about other groups wearing traditional attire which was the point of the thread. Let's talk about Western girls that have low self esteem and dress like hookers, all objectified and not at all about girls from other cultures that have to be all virginal and pure whilst the boys sleep around and have sex with Western girls whilst wearing whatever they want.

UK has many different regions and expectations of girls, you can't really generalise. What is expected from one set of girls in one social context is not representative of all.

Right posie, I give up. You want to peddle the "other cultures use clothing to oppress their women but we in Free Britain don't," line, go on, knock yourself out.

No I was one and had more self esteem than to conform.

This thread was supposed to be about why women, more than MEN, subscribe to traditional attire. This doesn't have to be another slag off poor white women dressing like hookers thread. It could be positive about other cultures, but as the difference is gender split I think there's a discussion to be had. Apparently talking about slutty white girls is far more important. And if parents are dimwitted enough to not arm their daughters with enough self esteem and confidence not to dress in this way then more fool them.

Western women to conform? As opposed to Western men or all other women?