"No thanks, I've got a boyfriend"... part deux

[Anniegetyourgun]

Here y'go, nice clean thread, please wipe your feet before trampling all over it.

A lot of soldiers are ok actually! - just normal guys.
My cousin's DH is a marine & I know a few forces / ex-forces guys.
Yes some drink & fight too much - lads do.
But at least they are down to earth, friendly & make nights out more interesting. There are too many TOWIE type men in my town.

What's towie mean?

There was a thing in the paper today which is pertinent to this. Someone sharing wamster's POV. Will find and paste.

for your perusal would be interested what others make of it.

Oooh, that's interesting Sardine.

Hahahaha yes it was very familiar, I did wonder. But he was citing a particular case through the whole article which made me think that this is just a cliched idea.

Oh no women don't complain about anything because you are painting yourselves as victims
Oh no women don't complain about anything because there are more serious things to complain about (and I will tell you what they are)
Oh no women don't complain about anything because now you are going to far and causing more harm than good

Riiiiiiight.

There is also this Jeremy Irons which appeared today. The line "If a man puts his hand on a woman's bottom, any woman worth her salt can deal with it" reminded me a great deal of Wamster.

Ironically the Sun printed this on one page and then a double page spread of Jeremy Irons in his latest film .

Christ what a wanker.

Men get very upset when they think their rights over women are being scrutinised/questioned don't they.

Like that marxist arsehole who was on the radio saying that men should be allowed to verbally abuse women and there's no harm in it

Blimey.

I may have to reassess my attitude to Chris Evans.

Wamster, apologies for calling you a sock puppet. Out of curiosity, (and this isn't with the intention of another row) can you see the similarity between your posts and severins, which lead to the conclusion it did? Again, I apologise in my part of calling you a sock-puppet.

doesn't mean I agree with all your views, though

That Jeremy Irons article is a bit sickening. Why would you feel the need to put your hands on a woman without her permission anyway? Really? Does your wife approve of this, Mr Irons?

"dan made the video, jamez is his mate from a woman-haters forum. There's another one called dadaz who pops up now and then.
I thought dan was also jennyvtheworld, who seems to have disappeared."

So everyone who posts an alternative view is a troll from a women-hating forum?

Clearly didn't actually read my posts did you - just put me in your little box marked 'people who don't agree with me and are therefore deluded morons.'

Very open-minded of you.

sorry Sardine Queen, was busy, TOWIE is 'the only way is Essex' - by TOWIE style men I mean the rich over-groomed types who are shallow & arrogant. Some of the bars in my town are full of them. They can be quite rude & demeaning to women who they don't fancy. They won't take no for an answer from women who they do fancy as it hurts their pride. That's why I prefer more down to earth men who are decent & polite (happily a lot do exist!).
Jeremy Irons - urgh imagine having an ugly old man like that putting his hand on anywhere uninvited...doesn't it occur to him that a some women may have low confidence or anxiety issues & NOT be able to deal very well with a man putting his hand on her bottom? But I doubt that men like him would actually care about that!!

I guess if Mr Irons were to put his hand on my person I should be flattered because I'm middle-aged and overweight and he's, like, famous innit.

Men do need to be taught how to approach women properly. And my ex-bf actually does this via an advice site. He would advise

Only approach a 'strange' woman if you get clear signals. And if you get a clear signal they are not actually interested, remove yourself politely... they may change their minds and talk to you later when they liked how you handled it. Either way, don't waste your time, don't hassle women, and don't get a poor reputation by handling rejection badly and especially not abusively.

I agree that it's annoying to be hit on all the time when you are not with a man, but saying 'I've got a boyfriend' does work best, so I don't see what's the problem with a little lie if it works. I know men who do the same thing to the rare women that approach, they mention a gf and the girl gets the message. Most of the time. Some people are drunk or bad at rejection.

I am also reminded of celebrities who get unwanted attention all the time. many will chat for a few minutes, pose for a photo even, but some people do not respect their personal space, and they can't use the 'I've got a bf/gf line.' I hear sometimes they do have to be direct, and the person goes away thinking or saying they are rude. It's harder for them in some ways because they have an image to keep up. The general public can be very annoying!

Vixaxn - this is the thing: yes some women do get hit on if they're not with a man. But I don't get hit on, even when I go to my local sports bar after the gym to have a coke & read a magazine. I chat to a couple of the barmen because I know them but I don't get 'hit on', ever. I'm not ugly & I wear nice clothes, I'm friendly & approachable to people (well, old ladies chat to me a lot!). I don't think I look off-puttingly desperate..Also in other places guys don't hit on me. If I'm sat near a group of older men then they'll include me in their conversation but men seem to think I'm 'sweet' rather than anything else.

My sister & her friends get hit on all the time as they dress in revealing clothes even at work; my married friends don't get hit on as they never go out on their own with other women at night & would never go out alone at any time (god knows why!).
I'm not saying I want to get pestered by lots of men but I would like to know why some women do get bothered a lot but I don't.

It's wrong, but I think wearing a skirt or 'sexy' clothes makes men think you are available. Women should be free to wear whatever they want, and men should be taught not to expect every women in a nice dress is looking for attention. I do think men need more education, from the right sources ie not pick-up artists - as their magazines tend not to focus on this stuff at all - which is detrimental to their chances of meeting a nice or even willing for a one-night stand woman, and would stop women being hassled by men who have heard little more than 'you have to be persistent.'

My ex teaches good tips IMO - how to be a charming, high-status man capable of 'flirting' women will find attractive - and that shouldn't be accomplished with fakery but by actually becoming" one of those men.

*I don't like that word, but too many men try to go under the radar and disguise sexual/romantic interests with 'just being friendly' which makes it harder for women to judge his true intentions - and that 'going under the radar' doesn't work anyway. When you reveal you are interested in more than friendship the woman will run a mile and feel deceived.

Mm... I can't help reading your posts, Kallista, as implying that if women are getting hit on it's because they're asking for it in some way, ie if you don't do those whatever-it-is things (dressing, going to "those places") it won't be a problem. Have I misunderstood?

I appreciate what you're saying, Vixaxn, but those of us who occupy spaces that aren't so mainstream don't find it to be the case that sexy clothing says anything in particular. For example, I'd never been to a mainstream nightclub until I was about 22. Before that, I'd hung out in rock and goth places where women (and men) frequently wear very little. I remember one woman who was only ever seen in g-string, bra, fishnet tights and DM boots; other women would wear PVC dresses split right up the back and no underwear. Some men would wear pairs of chaps and thongs.

No-one ever touched them. It just wasn't the done thing. I'm sure they got chatted up, and there was plenty of sex going on in the toilets, but the community would not tolerate any pushy behaviour. Anyone who did display such behaviour was quickly got a reputation and would be banned in future.

It was so bloody weird going to 'mainstream' clubs and seeing women, who to my eyes were wearing quite a lot, have to deal with all this unwanted attention. It's not 'normal' for men to do this - a lot of us, women and men, have fallen through the rabbit hole and been in communities where hassling, pushing and intimidating is not normal behaviour.