Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

'how would one manage procreation,would males be procured for sex and then once up nelly duff never seen again'

I think there would be a few takers for this job.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Fri 15-Jul-11 19:54:23
[anecdote] A lesbian friend used to visit a separatist commune/farm in Wales; her son was allowed to visit with her until he turned three.

What an awful anecdote. I have no time or respect for people who choose to lead their lives in a way that puts their crazy beliefs before their children, what a selfish loon.

lol,truckrelented form a disorderly queue i expect

ive namechanged for this-its about to become very clear why ive done this.
i dont read books so i havent read the stuff on seperatism.
as usual-im coming at a slightly diffrent angle in this.
i live a semi seperitist life-however this is because its been forced on me!
this is for two reasons-1-safety and 2-partriarchal!
this might run into a few posts-so please bare with me.
this started off forced but now im ok with it and can see some good in it.
it didnt start off political but it has become political!
i dont hate men and this is more to do with the partriarchy but in this-its the partriarchy gives men theyre more rights and self importance/hatred towards others.[cant remember the right words]
anyway-to try and get to the points-
im a butch lesbian and i have several dcs-all but one are either gay or what would be/is labbelled trans.[in fact-most of us are butch women or very effeminate boys with gay chucked in with some-im fighting trans labels]
most of my kids were brought up in a hetro household and all turned out the way they are.
as all this unfolded i was horrified origgannly as society dont like people like us.
my fight in fighting and protecting myself and my children has been the biggest fight of my life.
in this-i have to fight for me and my family to be seen as human beings-cos thats all we are.
im treated like shit and im like a monkey in a cage-a zoo animal to be looked at.
in fighting for me and my children-ive paid dearly-i lost my peace of mind and my rights as a mother[i havent got the same rights as you-but im fighting it]
at a partriarchic level-yep-ive lost my rights not just as a mother-but as a human being.
i had to fight not to get a child tooken off me-even though i had done no wrong-i fought by being honest and letting people see me as i am-warts an all-i won this bit as people come to respect me-however-the respect is not that respectful as we are still in a strangehold-as we look good on peoples cvs!!!!!!![think monkey in a zoo]
right-thats a bit of the partriarchal stuff talked about[i can/willing to elaborate on this]
ill finish this bit and write another post on the more society bit on it and it might become more clear why im semi seperitist!

v interesting post!so many questions.
did you experience institutional prototyping and stigma from Health,education and SW?
you allude to overcoming this and aspect of tokenism,was that staff trying to be right on and tick diversity boxes.demonstrate be nice to lesbians
knowing what you know now would you do it again

are there any separatists with really great fathers?
i ask because i feel i've modelled my relationships with men on my father and my parents relationship. he's not perfect by any means, but in a feminist way i reckon he must be 100%. he took turns with my mum in being the SAHP, he cooks, he 'manages the household' and does traditional 'wifework' and i have never ever expereinced him being less than 100% supportive of my mother or me (in fact, his relationship with my only brother was more strained that that with my mother and me).
i think that this has held be back from more radical feminism and certainly does from separatist feminism. if my mum died first i would seriously consider having my father live with us in his old age.

part 2-
ive seperated from men a bit as its safer.
orrigannly-i was threatened with a gang rape!!
ive had 3 dogs set on me[seperate incedences and one a pitbull]
and ive had numerous namecalling!
origgannly-when i walked out the door with my family-the whole estate stopped what they was doing and stared!
luckily enough-i think ive grown on people.
in this-ive had to give back what ive been given or i would of been slaughtered!
i still walk down the street with a large chain in my pocket[the chance of getting arressted is better than the alternitive]
i check that my smoke alarms are working every night before i go to bed!!!!!!!!
there is mostly women around us-a lot of men havent got the bottle=them are too busy thinking what other men might think about them for having anything to do with us.
men tend to not like my beuitiful effeminate sons-so they cant fuck off anyway!
men find me a challenge[or not like me-im not wommanly enough]-so they can fuck off anyway!
im very aware that there is men that would like my effeminate sons for perverted reasons-they can fuck off[they would leave with theyre bollocks missing]
so-yes there is mostly women around us and we do alright with this.
it is partly political and partly forced.
there is a lot of love and laughter here but this doesnt stretch to being outside the home a lot.
all i can say is-thank fuck for women.
before anyone slates me for being extreeme-put youreself in my posision and im only extreem as extreem has been shown to me.
you know what-i cant even put a picture of me and my family on my profile here-im just as proud of my children as you are.
footnote-im just about to go to court.
im refusing to have a title-so im being taken to court for it.
i refuse to have a title as it[in some incedences]puts me in a dangerous posision-im also doing this for some of my children-for the same reason.
no doubt i will have to stand in front of a bloody smallminded judge [and a patriarchic system]-but i will fight all the way.
some are ripping off peoples bollocks to make theyre own bollocks feel bigger.
not in my name-not in my childrens name-and not in people like us name-i wont let them.
yeah-i am quite seperitist-society has made me seperetist!

at this point i wish dittany would come along as im sure she would understand what im saying!

SM-
yep-we do experiance instutuisional p and stigma from health/education and sw!
yep-diversity boxes are ticked-but its lipservice and a good look trip.
its not a case of "would i do it all again"-its not a choice.

hey Anon - so you're separatist for your own safety in a way? Enforced separatism, rather than being somewhere secluded. Sounds incredibly difficult. To be made to feel so different to what society is prepared to accept, that being separate is safer and preferable.

Do you think if you lived somewhere else it would be better or do you think it would be the way it is for you now wherever you were?

So sorry that you've been made to adopt this course, anon. It sounds a lot like that article posted upthread, in which seperatist lesbians speak very movingly about just wanting peace, safety, and harmony.

do you home ed or use schools?
how have gp and statutory services treated you and family
aghast you check smoke alarm nightly,is there such a palpable threat- from whom.
what are police like to your concerns

so many questions, if its to intrusive dont feel pressed

yep house-it is enforced seperitism.
and yes-it is safer.
i think it would be the same wherever i was!
actually-in a way-for me and my family-its not that diffrent from when the west indian people come to england in 1950s/60s-same shit-diffrent names!

i dont home ed.
[smoke alarms]-im not compacement.
i dont go to the police-we are the black people of yesterday!!!
what do you mean by statuary services?

yep-i just want peace/harmony and safety Victor-i dont want to fight.
but it wont happen in my lifetime!

statutory=health, sw,police, hv, gp
thanks for answering
best wishes you and the children.you describe a lot of up and downs

one final,who compels you to take a title?do you mean ms, etc.is it mandatory to have title?

in some circamstances-yes i am compelled to have a tittle[some people are very good about this though]-this is why im being taken to court!

anon I think that's a really good point about how you've become separatist as a result of the way your life has gone, rather than through making an informed decision to be a separatist.

Your experience is quite unique, and I know it's been very, very hard for you . You have amazing resilience and courage. But even though my own experiences cannot compare to yours, I think one thing we have in common, along with a lot of other single mothers, is that separatism is something that happens to us rather than us choosing it, though in many cases we quickly realise that it works much better for us and we grow to embrace it.

I think, as a society, we should be asking why that is. Especially since being a single mother still carries stigma (benefit scrounger, feckless, etc etc) and more=often-than-not a fair amount of financial hardship. My life would be significantly easier financially if I paired up with someone, and I'd eve have more spare time because I'd have a live-in babysitter, but despite that I now prefer to live on my own and fulfil my emotional needs through my family and friends. And yet I definitely don't hate or fear men. I'm not choosing this because I'm scared to have another relationship or because I think all men are evil and nasty and best avoided. I just feel that being single and female dominated is currently providing the best environment for me and my DC, one of whom is male.

oh yeah-definatly Sunshine-its not a choice.
sometimes it happens TO us!
actually-i do like SOME men-but it runs deeper than this-its the bloody partriarchy yet again!
i have sons-most of who are very beuitiful effeminate sons-and they are being fucked over by the patriarchy-which also leads to other men/boys fucking them over-all partriarchic.
yep-our lives would be easier if we just get "sex changes"and hide!
if we all did this and then got married-we would look "normal"and everyone would be happy[others that is]
yep-we have got some things in common-no doubt this is why we are both here

This is a fascinating thread.

I was wondering - I know politically nuns are very different, but legally, wouldn't a separatist community be able to use the same arguments as a nunnery about not letting men in?

I have to admit I am interested in women's spaces because of a relative who was a nun (in an enclosed community). When she described that, I found it a really interesting window onto a particular kind of life. And reading the aarticle linked to about the lesbian community in the US, they also seemed to be talking a lot about spirituality.

I want to ask, if this isn't derailing (and if it is say so and I'll start a new thread, it's just don't know enough about separatism to know if this is germane to the issue or not):

Do you think separatism has to be partly a spiritual as well as a political movement?

And do you think a women-only space makes possible a kind of spirituality not possible in a shared space?

Ooh, interesting tangent LRD.

When I was 12 I really wanted to be nun. The lifestyle really appealed to me. I never followed it through because I figured the atheism might be a bit of a problem.

Maybe I've always had leanings in this direction?

yep-spot on Saf-discovering who you really are is very spiritual[i feel]
im a very spiritual person and its this that partly keeps me going[i turned to my religion about 30 years ago-but theres more to it than this]
i do seperate it from partriarchy-and i believe that partriarchy has no place in spirituality!!