Have I read this 'story' right?? Please tell me I haven't.

[stretch]

here

My first ever thread on Feminism, but I have no words...

All this blame the parents stuff - it's a form of magical thinking in a way, like all victim-blaming. We think, that'll never happen to me/my daughter because I will avoid the cracks on the pavement etc. It's understandable - probably even natural - to think this way but not logical.

It's perfectly logical. Sinical.

I can tell you for an absolute fact that my 12 year old daughter will not be texting adult men for sex in a park late at night.

Yes, it is possible for anyone to get gang raped. It's possible that I'll be gang raped on the way home from work, really.

But bad parenting will dramatically increase the chances of this happening. See this incident for examples. Just like not smoking doesn't mean you won't get cancer. Smoking just increases your chance.

But don't put any words in anyone's mouth. These boys are guilty, and there's no doubt and no one is victim blaming. We are just saying the parent's are shit. Or should not blame the judge because that might take away some blame to make someone else guilty of something in addition to the 100% guilt of the men?

The identities of these girls may not known by those commenting here, but the nature and circumstances of the crime will undoubtedly mean their identities are well known in the communities they live in.

With that in mind and from a legal perspective, I hope that those of you who are announcing to the world on a public board that they had been abused prior to this and that their parents are complicit have either 1) solid admissable evidence prooving this, or 2) taken steps to ensure you cannot be traced through your IP addresses.

Er, hang on, TAB, no-one has said that there is only so much guilt to go around. What people are saying is that holding the parents responsible for this rape is suggesting that there are other contributing factors to the rape other than the fact that those girls met six rapists in that park. That is classic rape myth territory.

Hold the parents responsible for the abuse that we on this thread have suggested may well lie behind the judge's clumsy words; hold them responsible for the girls being out late at night, if you wish. But suggesting, over and over again, that something those parents did caused that rape, is a bridge too far.

No Jointhedotties, it's not logical. No one can know anything for a fact, sadly. You can do all the right things, try your hardest, and someone can come along and ruin everything. We don't know what's happened in this case re the parents.

StayFrosty, if it were hugely unusual Jeremy Kyle would be out of a job.

I was fodder for Crimewatch, now I'm a law student and my teenage partner in crime works for special branch.

(I was only teasing by the way, no offence meant)

So the mitigating factors can apply in the sentencing at which point the judge decides whatever he thinks is the right answer and can chuck the rulebook out of the window?

I thought the whole point of the minimum sentencing was the judges had less flexibility? and yet here we have a case where the people have got way less than min guidelines.

I find it all very confusing.

SardineQueen, I find it all very confusing too. My next comment will probably have me up in court for slander, but what the hell. I think it's down to crusty old men in positions of power who like to get their rocks off imagining 12 years olds consenting to sex. Don't forget, this is the same group who allowed wives to be raped by their husbands right up until 1992.

I don't know if it's a case of getting rocks off or a case of having a very low regard for people outside their sphere. The idea that this is normal behaviour for 12yo - that's bonkers. And yet that was part of his thinking and part of the reason he thought the sentence was too harsh.

From the article:
"But they were released by Appeal Court judges who ruled their victims ?wanted to have sex? and ?it is what young people do?"

Well sure "young people" have sex in parks. But 12 yo with 6 men? Erm no. What planet are they on?

Are you suggesting Kladdkaka that we are going to get sued for suggesting that if your 12 year old child invites men for sex and is experienced sexually then it might, just might suggest that as a parent you may not have parented quite as you should?

Really?

Is there anyone who thinks that these children probably come from a perfectly healthy, happy and normal background?

Jointhedottes, what about the parents of the men? What do you have to say about them?

you are absolutely determined to pin this on the parents, Jointhedotties, they've been let down (to put it mildly) by the young men, by the judicial system but that's ok because their parents probably started it .

It's been said all along this thread that they have probably suffered some trauma, probably sexually abused. it doesn't follow that their parents are negligent. Doesn't rule it out of course. But it's weird to be so insistent on a possibility of wrongdoing, when proven wrongdoing is staring you in the face.

Jointhedotties, stop backpeddling, it's not me you have to convince. The common law definition of defamation (which applies to internet forums) is 'the publication of a statement which tends to lower a person in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally'. If you haven't done that, or if you have can prove what you say, then you have nothing to worry about.