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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

1002 replies

GetOrfMoiLand · 12/07/2011 15:14

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos. Grin

OP posts:
Tortington · 12/07/2011 18:00

well i think it ws the wrong thread title after all Grin frackin' femmies

swallowedAfly · 12/07/2011 18:00

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SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:06

being Switzerland suits you Lenin. Cowbells as earrings, basket of milk chocolate and a cuckoo clock hat. It's a good look.

CrapolaDeVille · 12/07/2011 18:10

Lenin has had plenty of practice, DP ring any bells??? Grin

MsCellophane · 12/07/2011 18:19

After the long threads last week, I was all ready to bite the bullet and jump in. I carried on reading but was still put off about joining in.

The things mentioned last week are still here - bringing things over from other threads, people aren't ever allowed to maybe put behind them things they say, things that maybe they have changed their minds on after reading more of the feminism section. No one is forgiven. On here tonight - some actually said 'didn't you say something anti-feminist once' Shock So someone says one thing and they are forever tarred with the anti feminism tag

People are still being called MRA and rape apologists - some of the time again, from past posts.

People are still being told to go away, we don't want your sort

Nothing has changed in this past week, even though everyone is still saying these things don't happen - they are on this thread alone

WriterofDreams · 12/07/2011 18:23

Agreed Ms Cellophane. It was Crapola who said to me that I had said something anti-feminist at some point. I did ask her about it but she didn't elaborate.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 12/07/2011 18:27

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SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:30

the MRA trolls are still around. And no, we don't want their sort.

MsCellophane - 'no-one is forgiven' - well WriterofDreams has brought something up by someone who said something mean to her a few months ago and apologised. But evidently the feminism section is never going to be forgiven for that. So it works both ways, it seems.

CrapolaDeVille · 12/07/2011 18:32

I said that about something anti feminist.....it was in response to someone saying that they had been picked on on here (paraphrasing).

CrapolaDeVille · 12/07/2011 18:32

Sorry Wod..... I couldn't remember at all....can't be arsed to search either. Perhaps I should just retract?

iMemoo · 12/07/2011 18:34

What's MRA?

Goblinchild · 12/07/2011 18:37

'i know where i am 'at' wrt feminism and raising my children to be feminists (even the be-penised one) what i can't be arsed with (and that's because i am inherently lazy and frankly,can't be arsed) is always looking for a feminist agenda' TSC

I was reading a picnic thread once on MN, where various people listed what the essential munchies should be.
Dittany said potato salad. So I read the whole thread twice very carefully, and it was still the only thing she said. No feminist agenda hidden in the mayonnaise at all. Grin
So maybe it's possible. Other people posted waving other snacks, but that one sticks in my mind.

LeninGrad · 12/07/2011 18:42

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SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:44

male rights activist (or misogynist rape apologist, depending on your perspective).

a proper equality movement for men acknowledging the way the patriarchy has been harmful to them as well as women would be one thing, but MRAs generally argue that equality has gone too far and women are now in charge, and feminism is to blame.

the one who has been around most lately wrote some charming stuff about women actually wanting to be raped, then came over here under a number of guises (including female ones) and boasted elsewhere on the internet about how he was going to come here to cause trouble. Very often that is what is going on when you see accusations of rape apology directed at seemingly innocent posters.

There was one a few months back whose favourite modus operandi was to pretend to be a radical feminist and say extreme anti-men stuff to try and get feminists to agree so he could copy the posts to MRA sites and say 'look, feminists do hate men!'

they have various anti-Mumsnet hate sites and they especially hate Mumsnet feminists because they think the rest of Mumsnet are just innocent mums who get corrupted by the evil childless feminists.

WriterofDreams · 12/07/2011 18:46

Nah no need to retract Crapola. I was honestly wondering what "something anti-feminist" would be? I'd rather be aware if I am saying anti-feminist things.

CrapolaDeVille · 12/07/2011 18:49

MRAs are lonely little men who can't get laid.

CrapolaDeVille · 12/07/2011 18:50

Writer, I have a bad memory and should have considered what you'd said before posting some vague comments about what you may have said!!

AliceTwirled · 12/07/2011 18:50

Does someone have a link to Jamez's site? It's the best way to explain their agenda and their obsession with MN.

SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:52

actually, you know what, here are the links:

www.facebook DOT com/ pages/Mumsnet-Sucks /120667294688534

anti-mumsnet DOT blogspot DOT com/20110301_archive. html

because evidence has shown that one thing they are bloody good for is making us laugh and reminding us that we are all on the same side Grin

SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:55

x-post Alice, someone linked the James one earlier today but I'm not sure where.

SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 18:58

also -for anyone who has had feminists be snippy with them or refuse to engage, hopefully a look at the troublemakers and what they get up to will help you understand if not forgive; in some cases you may have had the misfortune to come in with a genuine question in the middle of a thread where this lot have been attempting to fry our brains by going round in circles with what they are pretending are innocent questions but actually they have no intention of listening to the answer.

AliceTwirled · 12/07/2011 18:59

I did a search and couldn't find it. Jamez proudly posted a link to it, but I couldn't remember which username he was using at the time.

SinicalSal · 12/07/2011 19:09

Flippin heck. This again!
It's really not fair to generalise about the whole MN section, and worse the 'movement' as a whole because of a couple of posters who rub you up the wrong way.
Someone was really mean to me when I was struggling to give up the smokes when I was newly pg. I didn't say sod it, i'm off to buy 20 B&H. One ranter wasn't that influential.

sunshineandbooks · 12/07/2011 19:10

I can think of several feminist regulars who have had massive run ins with other posters on this board. Some have received absolute pastings! Hasn't stopped any of them posting though.

I like the extreme views. Without them what is considered moderate would be a lot less pro-woman. The better the arguments defending the extreme radical viewpoint, the harder it is to let any maltreatment of women go through, even though the consensus opinion may be much more moderate.

How much would feminism achieve if the most radical feminist position was "women should demand equal pay but we accept that we'll have lower salaries because we 'choose' to sacrifice our careers for children and it's only natural that employers will be suspicious of this and promote men instead of women". OTOH try arguing for free childcare and mandatory life imprisonment for all DV abusers and you might not get that, but you'll get something a hell of a lot better than accepting the status quo. Personally I have found that what seemed extreme to me when I first started posting on here now seems perfectly obvious. Wink

I would agree that if you don't want to get a bashing on the feminist board it is definitely worth lurking for a while. You only have to learn a little about feminism to realise that there is a mainstream view most feminists have on things such as porn, DV, glass ceiling, etc. while other areas have a lot more room for disagreement. I learned all this just by lurking on this forum for a short while. You don't have to read lots of books and the internet is quite good if you need a quick brief synopsis.

It can get very wearing to have to explain accepted feminist 'rules' (e.g. that the patriarchy exists) over and over again so posters tend to refer to arguments in shorthand or assume that the premise is a given. It's no different to the shorthand used in special needs or any other specialist area, and if anyone asks politely about it one poster will always take the time to explain or to point someone in the right direction.

I don't see this as a problem. I think it's about respect. This is a feminist forum. I wouldn't wander into a race rights forum and start posting without first making sure I was wasn't saying something offensive and controversial, or, if I didn't have the time to check, I would admit that I didn't know much about the theory and was prepared to be open minded but I think this... and then ask politely for opinions.

The trouble is when people post POVs that they haven't really thought through. If they do so in a "what if" kind of way then people tend to be ok with them. However, if they post in an aggressive manner and fail to fully defend it with facts and evidence they will get torn to shreds. Some people when faced with supporting evidence change their mind quite radically. I have. Then you get those who get defensive (on both 'sides') and start vehemently defending their position at all costs. But that's down to personalities, nothing else. It has nothing to do with whether you're a feminist regular or new to the board and this takes place across the whole of MN, especially on AIBU.

StayFrosty · 12/07/2011 19:11

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