To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, lrd. I don't thing being a feminist exempts anyone from common decency and good manners. Being "ripped to shreds" is "being ripped to shreds" whoever does it and under whatever flag. I don't think there is a justification for it.

Proles - I meant that post re Dittany. Are you deliberately misconstruing it?

Goblin - (see I can bold)

Thank you for explaining no idea who is talking to who so sorry

Some people seem to think it's justified when it's dittany being ripped to shreds though, don't they?

I can't tell you how tempting it is to write: she started it. But I think two things:

1. She dishes it out so she should take it and not cry bully.
2. I don't think she was ripped to shreds, as I said earlier, people were banging their heads on the screen trying to get her to answer questions and engage with them. Some were really extreme, but they got told off by others.

Proles THEY DID AT THE TIME. IT WAS IGNORED. God, I wish you'd read the bloody threads!

I meant it about Dittany. I do hope she reflects as we all have to. Why on earth wouldn't I? It doesn't make any sense. You are determined to have a fight with me or think I have some weird evil agenda. Why is it so hard for you to understand that I don't?

I don't think they can Lenin, the majority of people are just too personally passionate about certain things to be able to stop an argument becoming personal and then descending into a squabble or a full-blown argument. That's people, regardless of what position they are posting from. Not feminists, or radical feminists or MRA alone.
It is a shame, but I can't see it changing or becoming less volatile.
So the only way to stay involved and learning and reading is to wait to just before the tipping point and then leave the argument before getting involved in the disintegration of the thread.
you then have to not get upset if others choose to stay and have a fight, all adults making their own choices.
Which is what you've advocated all along.

Basically, this thread and all the others are about whether Dittany is too rude or not.

That is subjective and there will never be consensus.
Has anyone the right to tell someone to change their posting style? Each poster has to decide for themselves if/how they will respond if they see Dittany, or anyone else, being abrasive.

I think Dittany's great, well informed etc, and dogged. no kid gloves. She flamed me under one of my old names, but she was right. I was spouting 'common sense' and as Karma observed, 'common sense' is often antifeminist.

hully, I don't think being a feminist exempts anyone from common decency and good manners either. I think you'd struggle to get that from my posts.

What I'm saying is, bitching behind people's backs and/or blaming a group for the behaviour of an individual is also unacceptable. How can you not see that?

I will try to make this as plain as possible. For me:

No, I don't always agree with other posters. I don't like it when people are rude, especially to newbies and those who have valid but minority views (ie., not trolls pretending to have minority views). I do think, and I have said, that Dittany can often be out of order. I don't agree that she is always beyond reproach in here posting style: she's not. But she is not here now. The section can change and probably will - but I doubt it'll happen if people keep dragging up the 'all these feminists are the hive mind and are mean' stereotype, which I think this thread is doing.

Can't we try to make a difference by posting on threads to answer questions politely, but starting threads when soemone asks a question that needs answering off-thread, by picking each other up for out-of-line comments, by using the report button?

I'm thick skinned......

Call me what you want.

Just don't call me late for dinner.

I don't call anyone names.(except in my head)

IF you look at the Palin thread you will see just how many posts Dittany had deleted. If you were on that thread 'live' you would see just how horrible it was and why it was the catalyst that set off the long thread

This isn't about Dittany, she isn't the only one to do it. Our feelings are from a range of posters.

More posters are being told they are antifeminist, mysonigistic, MRAs, rape apologists, being asked why they are on this section, to leave this section etc etc etc Posters are talked down to and belittled at times.

The reading list and the academics are too much for some people who just want to pop in and out and to discuss topics that interest them.

Posters are having things they once said or believe in being brought across the boards, when the it isn't relevant to the discussion. Posters charitable donations are being questioned and again brought across the boards.

This is why people are expressing the view that sometimes the feminist section feels hostile.

The vast majority of posters would like to explore feminism - in their own way and their own time. Not all of them will be at the far end of feminism, not everyone will get there but they have an interest and it should be encouraged.

The views of the more staunch feminists do not outweigh the more liberal, everyone brings something to the discussion

It says more about your head than mine, Proles.

Hully, maybe dittany has taken time out to reflect on your comments and "become a better human being".

Have you also had a chance to think about why she called your views anti-feminist or rape apologist? Or does it only go one way?

I have to go out and drink loads and talk jolly nonsense but wot Cellophane said.

Yes Karma, of course I have. I think about everything. And I think her point of view, that all teenage girls must be believed etc is valid, BUT THAT WASN'T THE GODDAMN POINT!!!